Burglars and thieves who steal to fund an addiction to drugs, gambling or drink could escape jail even if they target a vulnerable victim such as an elderly shopkeeper, under new official guidelines.
Judges and magistrates have been told to take an offender's dependency into account when sentencing.
Crimes committed out of "desperation or need" will also be considered a mitigating factor when deciding whether the offender should be jailed.
With the prison population at a record high, the guidelines will be interpreted as an attempt to keep more criminals out of jail.
The recommendations were issued by the Sentencing Guidelines Council, which is chaired by Lord Phillips, the Lord Chief Justice.
They cover offences of theft, including picking pockets - though not mugging - and burglary from non-domestic buildings such as shops, doctors' surgeries or churches.
The guidelines state: ''Many offenders convicted of acquisitive crimes are motivated by an addiction, often to drugs, alcohol or gambling.
''This does not mitigate the seriousness of the offence, but an offender's dependency may properly influence the type of sentence imposed.
''The fact that an offence has been committed in desperation or need arising from particular hardship may count as personal mitigation in exceptional circumstances.''
Last night, the Conservatives said the guidelines were a sign that the courts were being pressed into alternatives to custodial sentences because jails were too crowded. The prison population recently topped 82,000 for the first time and 80 prisoners a day are being freed early to keep numbers down.
Nick Herbert, the shadow justice secretary, said: "People will be uncomfortable with the idea that professional thieves who prey on the vulnerable may only receive community service. Punishments should fit the crime, not prison capacity."
Patrick Mercer, a Conservative member of the home affairs select committee, said: "Whatever the background of the criminal they should be made to serve the sentence. Rehabilitation can go on in prison. I don't see why these are mitigating factors."
Under the proposals, the normal starting point for punishing a theft from a vulnerable person would be 18 weeks' imprisonment. The sentencing council proposed a maximum of three years' jail in cases involving force or intimidation against a vulnerable victim.
Thieves who steal from shops could escape prison even if they use force which results in minor injuries to a victim, or if they use intimidation.
The starting point for a punishment in such cases should be six weeks in jail - but again, this could reduce to a community punishment if addiction is a factor.
The guidelines state that it "may sometimes be appropriate" to impose a drug rehabilitation or alcohol treatment order, as opposed to a jail term, to break the cycle of addiction and offending - even if an immediate custodial sentence would otherwise be warranted.
Stephen Alambritis, of the Federation of Small Businesses, said: "It cannot be right that a persistent shoplifter gets away with a fine, the same punishment as someone who has outstayed their welcome in a car park."
Chris Huhne, for the Liberal Democrats, said the guidelines should not be used only to cut prisoner numbers. "The timing is suspiciously convenient."
Difficult to express adequate outrage. Open permission to steal, burgle and mug the vulnerable and hardworking. I agree addicts/ alcoholics should not just be in prison. They are not responsible for what they do as normal people are. Prison makes them worse as there is easy supply of drugs and booze in there. We need secure units for them where they can be forced to go clean. No contact with visitors for a month. After that very limited contact during sentence. Frequent blood tests because staff will smuggle stuff in for pay. Basic good diet, exercise. No privileges until clean. Grasdual hierarchy of privileges earned. Program to require big compensation to victims. Both money and service. Community labour to follow period in the secure unit.
Drug addicts let of for stealing for drugs. Alcoholics let of for stealing for alcohol. We obviously then kleptomaniacs must be let of for stealing for the sake of it. What next, Sex addicts let off for rape? Traitors because they betray their country for stronlyheld beliefs? What if they do it for money for drugs? We of course must let off congenital liars, maybe that's what this is all about.
The number of drug addicts has risen exponentially. That is the number of new addicts each year is proportional to the number of addicts during that year. This is why the number of class A drug addicts has increased from an estimated 3,000 or so in 1960 to about 750,000 today. Every one of those addicts are either directly or indirectly a menace. A vulnerable teenager doesn't just bump into a dealer. They become friends with an addict, then they may choose or be persuaded to try drugs themselves. Instead of weakness, our society should round up all 750,000 addicts and exclude them from society. The evidence strongly suggests that the number of new addicts would drop very quickly because the supply channels would lose there markets and the "friends" who introduce vulnerable youngsters to this stupid habit would be out of circulation. Even today, the huge cost is tiny compared to the real cost we already face. What does 'Nu Labour suggest? Pandering to this dangerous group! Why you may ask? Well, in England only 8,043,461 people voted Labour in the 2005 General election. So this group of 750,000 (not all in England) addicts mostly living on benefits in state subsidized accommodation are an important part of the Labour vote. In many key inner city marginal constituencies they amount to a much higher proportion of potential Labour voters. No wonder Nu Labour plans to look after them. They are buying their votes with our money. The issue is that ordinary families across the country pay with the cost of crime and much higher taxes, due to the benefits, lost productivity and lost taxes on these unemployed wasters and for a significant number, the huge problem and sadness of their own children becoming addicted. Nu Labour doesn't want to eliminate the drug problem, nor do they want to eliminate poverty. They encourage both - because it is good for Nu Labour votes. This is why ordinary hardworking people in England face an uncertain future. They are now a minority out voted and out numbered by those with their mouths firmly clamped to the state nipple. Mr. Brown has relentlessly increased state spending and state dependence since 1997. This isn't ignorance and left wing prejudice, it is deliberate and cynical vote buying. The very essence of Nu Labour. The opposition's response ? Dave Green hugs trees!
As an OAP perhaps the address of Lord Phillips parents or elderly relatives could be published so that these wretches dependent upon drugs etc might pay them a visit. He then might get a realistic feeling of what life is like out in Britain these days.
Lost for words. Totally, totally LOST for words.
Maybe Ivy Rush (12.06 pm) has never been on the receiving end of the burgling actions of one of her drug-addicted clients. Maybe she doesn't know what it is like to have to pull the chest of drawers against the bedroom door before retiring and to push it away in the morning while listening for noises downstairs, to lie awake unable to sleep because every creak of a floorboard or window causes a feeling of panic, to have the mobile phone by the bed with a torch in case the police have to be called at a moment's notice, to have offensive words gouged into walls and her underwear arranged on the bed (as happened to me), to feel unsafe in her own home to such an extent that it is put on the market at a knockdown price so that she can get out of it quickly in case the drug-addicted burglar comes back. Bang them up, I say - all of them, and make them go cold turkey while they're in there. My hero? Tony Martin. No doubt Ivy Rush's solution will be to suggest that I have counselling for my right-wing views.
Yet again it will be the decent people of this country which will suffer. When will our elected politician's actually do what the public wants. These dirty drug addicts are a massive drain on society spreading misery were ever they go. Why can't the money spent on these filthy people be spent on the victim's of crime.
Absolutely, they SHOULD get lighter sentences. And those people desperate for sex should be let off for rape and peaodophilia too. And lets not forget the poor angry people who commit murder and those lovely Allah worshipping muslims who are desperate for us to understand their religion of peace - we are STILL not getting it, poor things! Bless 'em all.
I'm desperate just to survive the increasing tax burden. However, I don't steal and prey on my neighbours because they are usually in the same boat. However, that sort of reasoning means nothing to the 'desperate' scum who are led to believe that it is their right to steal from and murder neighbours. Led to believe by a daft Government who just keep handing out sweeties to these people in order to corner a few more votes. That is what it is all about. The only way we are ever going to get this country back to something resembling a decent place to live, is to punish the scum - not reward them. How daft this Government is! The citizens have the answer. Go to it!!! McBroon is already on the ropes. Bring on the election and referendum.
Dear Ivy Rush, 12.06pm It's appologists like you that allow the drug-dependent scum to get away with commiting crime. I didn't pay for them to get addicted to drugs, I didn't encourage them to become addicts, and I damn well don't see why I should be expected to pay higher taxes to get them off drugs. A length of rope and a nice long drop is far better indeed and gets rid of the problem permanently. One trip inside to forcibly wean them off drugs is more than they deserve, if that doesn't work, kill them. This country is overrun with scum and its time to scrape some of it away. We need less do-gooder, liberal, appologist wastes of space like you, and more prison wardens. Re-cycle a junkie today, it's good for the planet.
A thinly veiled solution to lack of prison accommodation. Only sense if first offences are dealt with forcible curative treatment (?availability of centres) and full force of law for any further offences.
The super max jails in the U.S are filled with Mexicans, and the government are putting them in one end and pushing them out the other, the jails have revolving doors, then they are sent back to Mexico so that most of them decide to bring drugs back into the country. If George Brown did build more jails then England would need better policing to catch them, the police here in America can only catch criminals by asking the American public to give them a hand. I think the only way is to be vigilantes, maybe then all the law abiding citizens could go and live in the prisons, with the barbed wire on the top of the walls, it would certainly be a safer place to live, and all the criminals will live outside the prison walls. lol Hi Ivy Rush, just one word, I know that you want to save your job, but you do realise that the drug addict had a choice in the beginning and decided that "they would try it", just loved the part where it was written, that he had a terrible childhood, how on earth do these people know about this "terrible childhood", it must have been the addict, that told them, then of course it must be true. Maybe it would be better if the government decided that all the drug addicts should go into the army, the lads could then be brought home, and the drug addicts sent to Iraq and left there. Gosh when I lived in England it was a pleasure we never saw a foreigner, we use to walk home from the pictures when it was dark, and no one bothered us, we had a great time being born and bred in England, Oh! my mother only had the one, none of this 12 and 13 children and expecting the tax payer to look after them all.
a better way to cut the prison population would be to bring back the death penalty for capital crimes and hard labour for violent crimes
Politicians fail the decent people of this country yet again. Just when you thought it was impossible for them to get any further removed from reality…they prove you wrong! I’m a serving police officer and would take great satisfaction in dragging any member of government round to the house of a recent burglary victim and watch them try and justify any part of these latest ‘guidelines’ I’ve seen people, ordinary decent people, unlucky enough to fall victim to these ‘offenders’. Some take in their stride, but not most….. Lord Philips, why don’t you go round to the next 80-year-old widow who’s been thrown to the ground and had her house ransacked buy one of our poor ‘desperate offenders’ and explain your idiocy in person? I’m tired of doing it for you. While you’re doing that, I’ll nip down to the Central Criminal Court in London and saw off the Lady Justice’s sword. Its been giving off the wrong impression for too long now, don’t you agree?
There are many more desperate victims than there are desperate criminals! For elderly or frail victims fear and desperation will never leave them. The government has lost the plot! The electorate would much rather see a situation where courts have the right to refuse to hear mitigation evidence for certain types of crime, that would attract an automatic maximum sentence.
So if I assault the desperate criminal stealing my property and cannot prove self-defence does that mean, as an angry rather than desperate householder, I will go to prison and he will not? In the barmy world of Brown's Britain that makes absolute sense.
Posted by Ivy Rush on March 11, 2008 12:06 PM I'd sleep a lot better if you left the country. Perhaps we can send all the druggies, gamblers and pissheads round to you. You'd certainly deserve them. Remember love, before these people got their first kick, they had a CHOICE. What CHOICE do we have if they rob us blind?...... I believe Australia is very nice.
What would I give for the chance to vote for a good right wing party that would stop this kind of nonsense - and I don't mean Cameron's nambi-pamby Conservatives, either. What we need is some kind of 'Baden Powell' traditional BRITISH VALUES party - people who would whip the backsides off robbers, thieves, drug peddlers and sex fiends. I feel, and I am not alone, that we have entirely sold out our own culture, our values and our decency, in pursuit of a pathetic, sham vision of an acquiescent Britain - a place where squalid, mediocrity rules; where the politically correct surrender to barbaric, alien horrors such as forced marriage, and honour killings. I've met people in the public sector, who objected to intervention in a forced marriage case, 'because it is racist to interfere.'
Will this apply if its Lord Phillips' elderly mother who is mugged by these scum - I doubt it. If anything the penalties for these people should be harsher as there is absolutely no incentive not to reoffend. How stupid is this government? How little do they care?
Let's get one very important fact straight right at the very start. ADDICTS ARE NOT VICTIMS. There. Addicts are drug-taking criminals, they are the ones fuelling the tidal wave of drugs which has swept over this country. They are the ones responsible for a very large pecentage of the crime in this country. They are the ones who constitute the market for drugs. Solution. Mandatory incarceration and cure for every addict committing a crime. Mandatory 25 year sentence for every drugs trafficker with all his/her assets being seized automatically. Mandatory whole-life sentences for all importers of illegal drugs with all his/her assets being seized automatically. Mandatory 15-year sentences for anyone attempting to smuggle drugs into a prison or drug-rehabilitation centre. And let's build the prisons to house these drug sellers and smugglers on one of the more remote Scottish Islands with a military-monitored exclusion zone around it.
Cheer up !! It will soon be the Budget !!!! ( I'll get my coat )
A totally ridiculous suggestion. However, I cease to be suprised by the utter rubbish that comes out from the people we entrust to run our lives. God help us!
no way don't give them a break give us a break lock em up and throw away the key.they have a choice about commiting these crimes the victims do not have a choice.
I can see no logical reason to change the law due for being a drug addict.It was thir choice to be drug addict. Burglary is still burglary, Those who suffer from the crime, will only have the trauma increased, knowing that the offender has not suffered. Why should the victim be the one who suffers. The goverment has caused the problem due to inadiquate prison places. A possible solution could be strict Boot Camps.
Never have I read so much bilge as that spouted by Ms Rush (11/3 12.06 pm). Perhaps if this misguided (no doubt Labour-voting) do-gooder were to be mugged/burgled/worse she might adopt a different stance. As for the criminals, a boot camp or similar might well convince these persons that their activities will not be tolerated.
So can we expect millionares that commit fraud to receive much higher sentences?
No! The criminal actions of these individuals must result in harsh penalties. Prison is a deterent and punishment. There is no excuse for anyone who is down on their luck, to rob & attack people, when there are "Welfare- Benefits" and many support agencies that can at least provide the necessities of life. Forced drug-rehabilitation programs would remove the need for robbery etc!
And does that also mean that if I am continualy harassed by one then assaulted, then if I retaliate he would be given maybe community service. That he may not bother to turn up to, he wasnt feeling up to it maybe.There is a good chance I could be arrested and convicted
Surely this gives totally the wrong message to lawbreakers.Just plead hardship --no job,addicted to drugs(where did the money come from),bad upbringing,soory I hit him but I needed his/her money. It`s too ridiculous for words. These people are so namby-pamby.Do they live in the real world?
Yet again another proposal by the government to alter sentencing guidelines, creating a potentially uncertain legal system which is unacceptable for all involved in court proceedings. If this is to be given the green light then as a general guideline it should be decided on a case by case basis as a mitigating factor, but the experiences of the victim must be taken into account, otherwise once again the victim will suffer twice.
So they will be lenient to those who steal to fund an addiction to drugs, gambling or drink or even have run up bad Debts they cannot pay off or whos dole check has failed to turn up or they are short of a few bob
Britain is sick, and it's a great shame. Can I also be let off a speeding fine because I was 'in a hurry'?????? Wake up Britain before it's too late, NuLabour are more dangerous now than ever.IS THIS REALLY WHAT YOU ALL WANTED WHEN YOU VOTED FOR THEM AT THE LAST ELECTION?
Of course they shouldn't get lighter sentences, this country is now well and truly down the pan, the lunatics are in charge, andther seems to be nothing the rank and file can do about it except emigrate.
So they will be lenient to those who steal to fund an addiction to drugs, gambling or drink or even have run up bad Debts they cannot pay off or whos dole check has failed to turn up or they are short of a few bob
Curiously, this contemptuous government manages to find space in prisons for those heinous criminals who do not pay their taxes... The country is being run, not by those on another planet.but those who live in an entirely different universe.
Absolutly not! As a Probation Oficer for 30 years I can say from experience that addicts do not learn from experience good or bad,so focused are they on their addiction "needs" Treatment compulsory or voluntary is the only possible solution so locking them up so they have to take treatment is entirely reasonable. Even then unless they are determined to stay clean nothing will work on release
Use the birch instead or perhaps we could just pillory and shame them in a public square for an afternoon, how much could that cost? I'm suggesting this punishment for the idiots that thought up this latest criminal molly coddling nonsense! You do the crime, you do the time - build more prisons, create more jobs for warders, turn it into big business like the US Super Max jails.
There is a reason God put British people on that island...
Please, please, please tell me Ivy Rush, (12.06pm) is taking the piss. Nobody, but nobody, after over 100 years of compulsary state education, can be so bloody stupid. Even the deepest, darkest, rose tinted spectacles could not produce such utter crap.
As a smoker, will I now be able to steal with impunity to feed my addiction? I imagine so, although I will probably go to prison for dropping a cigareete butt in the street! What a ridiculous country, I´m so glad i live abroad.
If they are stealing to fund some self-indulgence then the sentence should be doubled not lessened. Are we now to be regarded as the funders of drug takers, gamblers and boozers? My God, Labour really do view decent people as worth less than scum. Here's the proof. GET RID OF THEM, they're ALL disgusting.
The idea that convicted burglars and thieves for drug offences should not go to jail,is ridiculous. The major task at the present time is to prevent the sale of drugs, in the first place.
Good grief! This is likely to propel non-drug-taking burglars and the like into drug-taking so they are effectively vaccinated against going to jail! I was burgled by what turned out to be a drug-taking burglar some years ago (in New Zealand) and the stress of it all was awful. When he was caught he was sent on an anti-drugs awareness course! ALL burglars should be sent to jail and they should receive treatment for drug-taking inside if need be.
I believe that there should always be an imposed drug/alcohol rehabilitation programme if non custodial sentences are applied. These should be residential as there is too much temptation to re-offend if an addiction problem. Community service orders would not be adequate on their own.
N0 NO NO ! CRIME IS CRIME WHATEVER THE REASON !
Hopefully these people will restrict their criminal activities to the members of the Sentencing Guidelines Council.
What is happening to this wretched country?This country is really going down the pan .It is high time the courts started passing realistic sentences .If the prisons are too full ...build more. I think there is too much attention payed to the so called human rights of this scum .Out there in the wide world I can see countries which know how to punish criminality- make the punishment fit the crime
No we are all victims of the choices we make. If I spend my wages on something I want and find myself short for the essentials in life am I then allowed to attack people in their homes? That is the long and short of what is being suggested in this new guideline. Anything other than the full sentence will only further erode criminals fear of the law.
Why sould they get a light sentence! It's not the fault of the victims that some idiot is a drug addict, alcoholic, or just a mindless selfish moron. Sentences should be deterrant, for all crimes, and they should be uncomfortable, harsh and painful. Then the criminals will get a small feel of what it's like for the victims. Strong controls should be in place at all prisons so no drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc can be taken in, and that includes the staff. Any addict who is caught will know that they are going to do 'cold turkey'. It may pursuade them that crime is not an option and that seeking help and following it through on the outside may be a good idea. (Prisoners should have minimum standards to live in, ie, less time in the gym, less TV, lower temperatures, bare minimum boring food, etc, the less it costs the better. Stop wasting money on the criminals, and use it on the honest people.) Stop thinking of the criminals and think of the honest victims for a change.
'The fact that an offence has been committed in desperation or need arising from particular hardship may count as personal mitigation in exceptional circumstances.' I reckon defence lawyers are going to have many lucrative field days creating bogus 'desperation or need arising from particular hardship' case law. Wotta boobie-brain!
NO. but bloody tax payers should!
.......... and a country gets the government it deserves?
If one commits a crime one should go to jail, do not pass go do collect anything including benefits for the family, if foreign, should be deported.
When oh when will they learn that going soft on criminals is not the answer? Criminals are motivated by greed and easy money. So the only form of control is not to make it easy and increase the risk of getting caught. If "getting caught" is no longer a risk in itself, where does the control come from? Lets just put our money in a bucket outside our houses, in order "to save confrontation"! Maybe this Government will then give us a tax rebate, because they will no longer have to fund the Police or the Courts.
JACK STRAW SHOULD VISIT THE BADLY BATTED PENSIONERS. WHAT PLANET IS HE LIVING ON ?
Addiction is not easy to overcome. Of those who have succeeded, a significant number have done so as a consequence of doing time inside. Furthermore, for those who have never been inside, the threat of imprisonment is a major incentive to quit. I suppose this latest proposal is just the next step in Labour’s strategy of turning the UK into a nation of dependents.
A visit to the Sentencing Guidelines Council website, reveals that the topics they consider, are put to them in a number of ways for consideration, including recommendations by the Home Secretary. There is no doubt in my mind where this ridiculous proposal came from. In addition, the Council, before coming to decisions/conclusions consult with the public presumably. I suggest that all correspondents who have taken the trouble to make their feelings known on this subject to the Telegraph, also e-mail the Council. Their e-mail address is on their website. Ludicrous recommendations by this unrepresentative, unelected, unaccountable coterie, comes as no surprise to me, when one looks at the make up of the council, the majority are senior judges, Sirs, Lords et al, none of the great unwashed are included.
So if I have an "anger management problem" and assault someone who disagrees with me, badly injuring them, it seems that putting me in jail would be wrong since its not really my fault---blame on my anger management problem. Maybe this problem will also lead to a tranquiliser addiction so I can have still another excuse for my savage crimes. Does anyone take responsibilty for their actions nowadays? Anyone at all?
In liberal US newspapers this past week there has been mighty indignation over reports that 1% of the population is in prison. This is a direct outcome of a "no second chance" approach to criminal laws in most of the states, enforcing laws against drug producerssmugglers, sellers, and users. When the existing prisons were filled, more were built. I sense the citizenry as a whole feel safer for it.
Ha, ha, ha, ha! No, stop it, stop it! He, he he, he! Seriously, STOP IT!! It's hurting me. Ho, ho, ho, ho, he, he, he, ha, ha, ha, ha. Please, STOP IT, STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!
How deep can Brown and his little helpers dig ? Haven't they been digging deep enough ?
Yep...We got there finally --THE LUNATICS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE ASYLUM ,AND ARE SELF ADMINISTERING THE DRUGS...!!
Great!!So now I can mug an OAP, steal from Tesco`s, then get drunk. Providing I`ve paid my council tax, I won`t face jail.
i cant wait until we can vote these lefties out. If you work hard , pay your taxes, dont claim any benefits, know what is morally correct then you have no chance with this govt.I have a business, pay my taxes, conform to a normal british way of life(that is in the south) and i am seriously thinking of giving up. Low life have child after child and get paid more and more. meanwhile, im paying 50% of my income in tax. i.e half of my hard work funds these people. GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!
Would people who commit an offence because they are having difficulty paying their bills, keeping their family together and a roof over their head be allowed to use their circumstances in mitigation as well ?
Posted by Tim Axworthy on March 11, 2008 1:00 PM Report this comment ' desperation or personal hardship' hmm.... Presumably quite a proportion of elderly English or working families could make such a plea under this Labour government. Is there a Mr G .Fawkes in the house? OH YES HERE HE COMES...MR.''V'' FOR VENGEANCE DRAWS EVER NEARER
Posted by Tim Axworthy on March 11, 2008 1:00 PM Report this comment ' desperation or personal hardship' hmm.... Presumably quite a proportion of elderly English or working families could make such a plea under this Labour government. Is there a Mr G .Fawkes in the house? OH YES HE HE COMES...MR.''V'' FOR VENGEANCE DRAWS EVER NEARER
what lunatic thought this one up
See that thread everybody???? Its the fabric of society coming un-ravelled......
Thanks Gordon! Let's have some fun everybody .... it's lawless Britain now! it's better than living in 1800s American west! Gordon, may we have gun as well please? Everyone loves you and will vote for Labour....
Free everyone and put all the New Labours in jail. Gordon will like it because of the free meal. I don't feel safe under Labour non-sense government.... They terrorise every good citizens. Under their control, being a criminal probably better than being a good citizen. Our kids have seen them all, that's why we have so many young ASBOs. Jail is better than hotel. Free meal, no hard labour work and tax free....Being ASBO and go to jail, Priceless!
Why not just paint a target on the backs of the vulnerable population. Once again this governement is pandering to the criminals and ignoring the upright citizens. Shameful.
Utter Brilliance by the Labour party. So on this premise, as a foreigner for example they can: 1. Come to the country as an illegal 2. Commit a crime 3. Get jailed for that crime 4. Get released early, given £3k to leave the country 5. Come back, become a drug addict, start the process all over again but not get imprisoned because of 'desperation'? Thank god I'm emigrating within 2 years. I just feel sorry for those who can't and have to live in the mess created by Labour. I suggest all those who can leave, leave and those who can't to start saving and get skilled up so you can. The UK has seriously lost the plot.
Good God, what is WRONG with Britain? Another reason to be thankful for not living in the U.K. Criminals have greater rights than victims -- insanity.
Of course no criminal should be let off. If police actually catch one the event should be trumpeted. It is right enough what Maggie Thatcher said as she left Gordon Brown following her visit to Downing Street........THE MONKEY GOT THE HAT!!!
Most certainly not! British justice was once the envy of the world, but under nu labour it is fast becoming a laughing-stock! This useless government has been the direct cause of increases in drug addiction, drunkeness and gambling by its relaxation of existing laws and now, seemingly, wants to penalise the law abiding population by refusing to imprison the offenders. The liberal/social 'do-gooders' have tried the softly softly approach of asbos and community service and it has been an utter failure, the recipients either looking upon it as a badge of achievement or not bothering to even get out of bed to turn up. The public demand protection from these scum and, if the government is unwilling to provide it, then they must be replaced at the earliest possible opportunity! Perhaps the first occupants of the new prisons, if any are ever built, nu labour has a reputation for lying, should be Cabinet members past and present, who have failled miserably to protect the general public, despi te their broken promise of being 'tough on crime and the causes of crime'! Strange that anyone who refuses to pay their extortionate council tax, which has increase by over 100% under nu labour, is still imprisoned for 'stealing' from the government, but any criminal who steals from the general public is not. The government has an obligation to uphold the law and protect its citizens, nu labour has failed pathetically on both counts!
This is neither stupidty or incompentance - This is yet another nail being hammered in by that secretive organisation 'common purpose' - Are you feeling suppressed, alienated, unable to exert influence, worried about who's side the judicary are on? If you are - then their winning.
It follows, therefore, that if my life is threatened by one of these individuals and I am naturally desperate to save myself, leniency will be shown when I am sentenced for having used excessive force 'in the extreme'? Posted by Chris on March 11, 2008 6:53 AM Absolutely Chris, and now you are starting to understand the law. Indeed you would not need any mitigating factors. You would have an absolute defence of 'self defence' Ok, I agree you would have to overcome the perverse reasoning of the Police and CPS who would definately proceed against you. However, that is exactly the re-focus I want. To allow people to look after theselves and the law to come down hard and heavy on the perpetrator who tried to use violence against people like you. I want violence and offences against personal property to be the threshold test. But if someone really wants to kill someone, because they take a bottle of milk or a loaf or bread, then let the law deal with you accordingly.
People has drinking, drugs, or gambling problem should be rehab in an island. Make them grow their own food to eat....We shouldn't use tax payers' money to feed the soul-less people. "Once criminal, always criminal"....Bring the Death Penality back please! No pain, no gain! Stop the non-sense Human Rights....Civilisation is going backward in Europe because of that. Look at the differences comparing us to US, China and Russia. Look back to our glory British Empire...the Kings and Queens were Right!
These are exactly the types of criminal that need to be put inside for some time. Drugs do make them desperate, some even kill their own mothers in their crazed state. They need to be off the street in their own interests as well as mine.
Make DCI Gene Hunt the Home Secretary.
Considering everything is outsourced these days why can't we outsource our prisoners. I am sure countries like Poland or Turkey or even some of the French colonies would be happy to attend to our prisoners needs for some extra cash. Vote BNP
What lunatic logic! If someone is liable to be a recidivist, for whatever reason, the priority should be to protect honest citizens, lock the vilains up and throw away the key. Our entire judidicial systems seems to be peopled by unelected, anti-democratic demagogues, completely out of touch with reality. We need to have a system of accountability for all public officials, not least these goons in the judiciary. Judges should be elected for moderate terms (not too long), and required to make public their performance so that decent people can assess whether judges are doing a decent job.
This is typical of this government, if Gordon Brown had released the funds to build the prisons as requested by successive home secreterys when he was chancellor, there would be places available to put these animals instead of leaving them on the streets to assault even more vulnerable people. Every problem relating to crime and loss of order can be traced back to Gordon Brown, its time he brought in legislation to look after the victims and make the streets safer, not more consessions to the animals ruling our streets, he should build as many prisons as needed to lock them all up.
What in the Holy Hell have we come to?! I'm a pensioner with an unblemished character so now I have to roll over so that some socially inadequate scum bag can with impunity rob me of what little I have earned and put together in a long and difficult life? Put the innocent in gaol then you barking mad imbeciles. Alternatively, anaesthetise the worst of criminals and put 'em in racks until their sentences are served and return foreign offenders to their countries of origin - except terrorists who should be summarily executed,thereby making room for the scum that this bunch of Aero headed imbeciles who think themselves 'thinkers' and reformers want to care for. Bleeding hearts - you are bleeding over me and I don't like it one bit!!
Another consideration from Brown et al might be the effect on UK investment and jobs creation by outsiders if this loosening occurs. Stories in the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, the NY Times et al will absolutely kill job creation in the UK and may have a severely damaging effect on business confidence. This is potentially the same-old, same-old as "don't buy an English car made on a Friday" because the product almost always had problems from the drinking/hangovers of the workers. Now it won't be cars but other good and services. And think of the effect on tourism: the French, Germans and Italians would have a field day with this as would the US tour operators. And with the US tours the lower dollar will continue to be a disaster for UK tourism... and now add a perception of leniency against "raving armed heroin and cocaine addicts taking over Buckingham Palace". Not good. The US tabloids would use plenty of ink and sell plenty of papers with these stories.
For Christ's sake! How much more stupid do the Labour people who govern us and liberal thinking judges have to get? If you do not punish, you get more burglars and thieves. Most of these burglars and criminals are living and breeding on the welfare state, so they should have no excuse for being desperate, especially since they get paid more in benefits than the minimum wage for working. I appreciate that it costs us more to keep them locked up in prison hotels than free in council housing, so it is time to start chopping hands off or better still to exterminate persistant non reforming offenders.
Congratulations! This is officially the most stupid proposal ever suggested by anyone ever! If there are no consequences to anyone's behaviour, why should behaviour be modified to make it acceptable? Lets all do what we want, when we want to whoever we want, regardless of how antisocial, unacceptable and loathsome it may be. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
And you wonder why 100 people leave Britain for foreign shores every 24 hours.
Ah yes. "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime". We are dealing with the lowest dregs of society here, the absolute scum of the Earth, self-indulgent idle filth that would rather prey on the weak and defenceless than support themselves by doing something productive and useful, truly vermin by any definition. Do they really want people taking the law into their own hands, as the authorities progressively relieve themselves of any responsibility for the protection of the law-abiding public from the most parasitic and predatory elements of society? Because that's what they'll get, and then the poor deprived little drug addicts and alkies so beloved of the hand-wringing silly Liberals really will be victims. Total insanity. Once again the Government reneges on its contract with the people who pay its wages and whose interests it purports to serve. Oh, and just a thought, who exactly will occupy the prison places freed up by this insane initiative? Real hardship cases such as OAP's who can't afford both their Council Tax and their heating bills, and choose not to die of hypothermia? I'll bet it's not dishonest MP's who have ripped the taxpayer off for millions of pounds though.
General election NOW. That's all the people of this country require. We are sick to the back f*****g teeth with this government.
Absolutely not!!! Are you crazy?
How clever of Labour to follow South Africa's lead. In SA the policy is not to coddle weak-willed drug addicts but the millions of unemployed. In SA anyone ( black, coloured or white ) who is not poorly dressed is a legitimate target. Hi-jacking a car, maybe 30 minutes work, will earm you enough money to live for a month or more. Murders are now so frequent that the public rarely expect arrests or prosecutions. Those police who are not corrupt are demoralised by courts throwing out cases or delivering trivial sentences. Britain is now PC bonkers. Turning back will be impossible.
This is typical of this crass inept government, under whose bad management, interfering and control freak mentality the vast majority of citizens could now be classed as desperate. Maybe we can now all do exactly as we please without penalty or recrimination.
Thieves should be crucified slowly in public, because, as Jesus taught us, 'hanging is too good for them'.
The majority of thieves already don't get caught, because there are too few police on the street. These days, if they are caught, they are treated as the victim. The rest of society (the real victims of these crimes and victims of the climate of fear the crimes produce) are being told we should be more understanding of these people. Whose side is the government on? Not ours it seems.
For ten years we have suffered a government that has been in power but never in control. I am only surprised that people are shocked at the latest news with regards to prison sentencing. What on earth did you all expect, a mature decision?
This Goverments new slogan Hard Labour-No Soft Labour
' desperation or personal hardship' hmm.... Presumably quite a proportion of elderly English or working families could make such a plea under this Labour government. Is there a Mr G .Fawkes in the house?
This stupid Government cannot see how easy it would be to build a dozen prisons in just a couple of months. The army should have plenty of barbed wire preferably razored, in stock and get the prisoners, shackled, to erect the fences. The only buildings required would be for the keepers and a few caravans will suffice for a while. Animals are quite used to living out of doors and this is what so many of these criminals are these days. The difficulty will be to find places sufficiently remote in our overcrowded island.
Our law makers should be put in jail for even considering this ludicrous proposal.
Is perhaps Lord Phillips a herditary peer showing the imibicilty that results from generations of inbreeding does anyone know? The whole Sentencing Guidelines Council should resign in shame for this blatantly ridiculous piece of garbage. Or better yet, suicide. If a criminal has commited a crime due to dependency then the best place for them is prison, where at least that dependency might get some treatment. I'm desperate to hang on to the money that I earn and not pay taxes to fund criminals and fools such as these. If a criminal commits a crime due to drug, alchohol, or some other dependency, hang them higher I say!!!
Once again the BMA or whoever was responsible for looking into the appropriate addiction issues did not do their homework... or was not listened to by the self-serving foolish MP's. The BMA would find if it asked people at the US medical schools and law enforcement agencies that this way of handling the crimes in not only ineffective but outright dangerous to the general population.
God never wished for such people to live in the World and elimination by vapourising should be the answer to all these un-wanted people and all other Rogues who should never have been born. Posted by Nigel on March 11, 2008 12:21 PM Ok, that's the politicians sorted but what about the petty criminals?
Surely the intelligent way to deal with drug dependant criminals is to put them through "cold turkey" courses and get them off drugs instead of sending them to prison. Permanent cures are perfectly possible as I know through first hand family experience.
Pathetic. These people should stay locked up until they have broken their dependency - safer for the rest of us and a chance of a new start for them. But no doubt the 'human rights' morons prevent this from happening.
I have an even better idea, let's legalise crime. That way nobody gets put in jail. Oh hang on! That's what they are trying to do now isn't it ? Whatever happened to the days where you committed a crime, you got caught, you went to jail for a long time and you worked long and hard to repay your debt to society ? Nowadays it seems that you commit a crime and walk away laughing (and more often than not sneering and making obscene gestures) having been let off by the system that seems to protect the criminals at the expense of the victims. Ah well, at least I suppose it means I can rob a bank then claim I was desperate for the cash to buy a 42" TV and I'll get off with little more than a slapped wrist and even if they do that I can claim compensation nowadays.
Suppose I am an old age pensioner, hooked on life and love to eat a decent meal and live in a warm, decent home. In my desperate craving for these things, I stop paying my poll tax. Will I be given a lighter sentence? Of course not-read the papers! What a bunch of Nulab nonsense!
Definitely NOT. Would this "lighter sentencing" include the incumbent government who have been robbing us blind for years ? Get them out and the sooner the better
One way ticket out of this cesspit called the UK for all the decent folks, let the criminals completely run the country. Hopefully their first target will be the politican who came up with this little nugget.
Drugs are more expensive than alcohol, yet the goverment in their wisdom (Ha. Ha.)Will try to increase prices, in a so called attempt to curtail drinking of a small minority, but, what a wonderfull way to tax the majority once again and pretend they hold the moral highground
This is a very cynical attempt to manipulate the prison figures. Worse, it confirms New Labour's willingness to tamper with the judiciary, which is supposedly independent of politics. Sentencing should be based on two factors: the nature and severity of the crime, and the mitigating circumstances (if any) presented by the accused state of mind. The role of drugs, mental illness (etc) should be a factor in the prisoner's rehab programme AFTER sentencing.