Canada Gives Obese Flyers an Extra Seat for Free
The Supreme Court of Canada has upheld a regulatory ruling requiring the country's airlines to provide an extra seat -- at no charge -- to obese passengers and those with certain disabilities. Failing to do so, the court said, is discriminatory.
The landmark ruling requires the nation's carriers to adopt the Canadian Transportation Agency's "one person, one fare" guideline that grants an additional seat to the obese and to those with disabilities requiring a personal attendant or wheelchair. Although the ruling applies only to domestic flights, it could pave the way toward similar policies in other countries that have grappled with the issue.
Air Canada and WestJet had asked the court to strike down the regulation; its refusal to do so was hailed by advocates of the obese. "It's going to make a huge difference because now I know that I'll be able to fly with dignity," Linda McKay-Panos, who is obese and represented obese passengers in the case, told CTV. "A few more of us can be more comfortable flying."
The airlines say they'll comply with the ruling when it takes effect next month but aren't sure how. What are they supposed to do? Weigh their passengers at check-in?
It's a tricky question.
A hodgepodge of activists and advocates has long argued the morbidly obese and the disabled are entitled to a second seat gratis. The case in question was brought by three plaintiffs -- a woman who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis and requires an attendant, wheelchair and crutches; a man who suffered from a rare disease that impaired his mobility (he died before the case was resolved); and the Council of Canadians With Disabilities. They argued airlines were discriminating against them by charging an extra fare because they required additional space to travel comfortably.
The Transportation Agency agreed and adopted its "one person, one fare" policy last January. It requires airlines to provide the morbidly obese with an additional seat if they cannot comfortably fit in one and provides free airfare to an attendant assisting a disabled passenger. Air Canada and WestJet appealed the ruling to the Supreme Court, which rejected the application last week. Representatives for the two airlines say they'll comply with the regulation, but aren't sure how.
"Will we be putting criteria in place to determine whether somebody
travels with an attendant out of necessity or out of desire," WestJet spoksman Richard Bartrem told CBC News.
"What is morbidly obese? How are we going to make that determination
and implement that respectfully, and consistently and fairly?"
It's a valid point. What are the airlines to do? Require a doctor's note? Weigh passengers when they check in? Measure their waistlines to see if they'll fit in one seat? We asked Air Canada if it had come up with a plan to comply with the rule -- which could cost the airline as much as $7.1 million a year -- and were told only that it "intends to comply with the regulation."
For many, the free-seat fracas goes to the question of whether obesity is a disability. A Vancouver Sun columnist argues you can't define a disability without considering the environment in which it exists. The way he sees it, most people would consider a blind man disabled, but if he lives in a land where everyone else is blind, he's just another guy. An editorial in the Denver Post raises the same point. "Airlines should do their best to accommodate all passengers," the Post says. "Yet a majority of obese Americans are making a lifestyle choice. Forcing companies and passengers to make impractical financial adjustments on their behalf is unfair."
Where do you draw the line? Should they get an extra seat at the ballgame? How about a concert? And if the obese can't help being obese, can tall people help being tall? Is making them fold themselves into a coach seat any less discriminatory? Should they be allowed to stretch out in first class without paying extra?
True, a study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition suggests that although there is a behavioral element to obesity, genetics also plays a role. Another hypothesizes that a mutation in two specific molecules can cause the body to produce more fat cells. Of course, plenty of studies say otherwise, and if the results of a poll we ran awhile ago are any indication, most people think the obese oughta pony up for the extra seat.
Uncle Sam agrees. The Department of Transportation's official policy (.pdf) states that "if an obese passenger -- whether the passenger is qualified with a disability or not -- occupies more than one seat, airlines may charge that passenger for the number of seats the passenger occupies."
So U.S. airlines are off the hook for now, though a spokeswoman for the Air Transport Association assured us that domestic carriers will comply should the rules change.
Photo by Flickr user Pat+.
Posted by: patdude | Dec 1, 2008 2:50:35 PM
This is some dangerous line to cross. I'm sure a lot of people will have some sort of physical feature that will qualify for discrimination under this criteria.
I for one feel discriminated because I receive half the seating space the fat guy received even though I paid for the same service. How is that not discrimination? If you work out and are fit, screw you, if you're fat, come on sir, get an extra free space that all these morons who watch their weight will pay for.
Posted by: A.F. | Dec 1, 2008 3:36:20 PM
Well, on the plus side, it may enable us to get a realistic amount of leg room for once.
If you can't discriminate against the obese, you can't discriminate against the average and above average height flyers.
Posted by: JC | Dec 1, 2008 3:37:04 PM
Lose some weight fatty and you won't have to buy another seat. When I was flying a year back there was this whale at the counter who was pissed because the ticketing agent told her she needed to buy another seat. If you don't like it do something about it (like losing weight) do go and bitch about a problem you caused so that they change the rules just for your fat ass.
Posted by: RDK | Dec 1, 2008 3:46:08 PM
"It's going to make a huge difference because now I know that I'll be able to fly with dignity."
While I feel bad for those with medical conditions, I still wouldn't exactly call being sprawled across two seats "dignity."
Posted by: Joe | Dec 1, 2008 3:48:51 PM
I am well over 6 feet tall. It is impossible for me to comfortably sit in an airline seat. Based on the Canadian government's argument that if someone isn't comfortable they get a free upgrade, do I get an extra seat to stretch out into, for free? This is ridiculous. I won't even go into the lifestyle vs genuine disability issue.
Posted by: Tall Guy | Dec 1, 2008 4:06:55 PM
Hey! Lay off Canucks! They need to have a layer of fat in order to survive the harsh Arctic winters.
.
Have another donut, eh?
Posted by: Chuck Darwin | Dec 1, 2008 4:18:16 PM
Hey tall guy, your upgrade would consist of a can opener so you could cut a hole in the fuselage so you could stick your fat head through.
Posted by: the Dude | Dec 1, 2008 5:20:53 PM
Fat people should be discriminated against, they are a crime against aesthetics.
Now that Obama has been elected, Canada is no longer the cooler alternative to the US, it's just another weak nanny state that coddles failures like these.
Posted by: Joah | Dec 1, 2008 5:22:32 PM
10 out of 10 Wired users agreed on a subject. They are against Canada's ruling.
If people on the internet (of all places) can agree this is a thick headed move, why can't Canada? Eh?
Posted by: An Observer | Dec 1, 2008 5:33:48 PM
I'm well over 6 foot, have a bad back and shoulders that are wider than the seat by quite a bit (not fat, but not a small feller...) do I get more legroom, a seat with proper lumbar support and a wider seat? Somehow I doubt it because these features haven't been given justification as a 'disease' yet. Can't fit in a plane seat? Go by train/bus/boat.
Posted by: Hah! | Dec 1, 2008 5:55:56 PM
Look its easy if ALL wired readers actually agree THEN they are more then likly right. So acrording to this ruling the fact that I cant stand when strangers touch me even a litte I should have a free seat.
This is fucking nuts. My gf has 4 blown disks in her back. YET oddly she dosent weigh 400lbs. If she can stay normal size considering she can hardly walk then fatass eating KFC 8 times a day can fucking diet.
Posted by: m3kt3k | Dec 1, 2008 6:02:48 PM
Canadian airlines need to put a weight limit on the ticket and tell the government to fvck itself.
I'm canadian and I think this ruling was idiotic.
Posted by: TXP | Dec 1, 2008 6:16:47 PM
There is no right to fly. Well, I guess there is now isn't there. What's next "Jimmy can't afford the ticket, so give him the seat for free"
Posted by: Kol | Dec 1, 2008 6:18:22 PM
sorry to be the disagreer but...
from a consumer standpoint (and not the obese one), I had a flight aborted from Las Vegas to Albequorque NM and was bussed to LV. I complained and was told their obligation was to get me from A to B. It works both ways. As it is they are trying to squeeze more and more seats into a given space. I (6'2" 215lbs) am royally uncomfortable and my 5'3" wife even complains about the lack of elbow space. Yeah its easy to rip on fat people on this one, but before eveyone jumps on this like the McDonalds coffee thing think it through a little bit. All this says is that your entitled to the service you paid for. imagine if they charged tall people extra for using more headroom.
Posted by: ibored | Dec 1, 2008 6:25:25 PM
The only good it will bring is that you won't have to worry about any fat guy sitting next to you and having to go to lavatory frequently.
Posted by: EL | Dec 1, 2008 6:46:36 PM
When you are sitting on isle, that is.
Posted by: EL | Dec 1, 2008 6:48:25 PM
I DON'T LIKE WHERE THESE COMMENTS ARE TAKING US.
Posted by: mary cunningham | Dec 1, 2008 6:54:10 PM
I love the American attitude to obesity. Majority of them either obese morons or morons hating obese people.
I'm 300lbs+. I can't do anything about it. No diet will fix me, and I physically can't exercise.
All I can do regarding it is *wait*. Wait for doctors to give me the advanced surgery I require.
I agree with the Canadian move, even if it'd be little help for me - usually I need more leg space and double seats does nothing towards that.
(I need extra leg space yet I'm morbidly obese. This means I have separate conditions, not that I'm somehow storing my fat in my knees.)
Posted by: tz | Dec 1, 2008 7:13:58 PM
Well this is a band-aid to the whole problem, what they really need to fix is the price of fuel compared to your weight, this will solve the problem for the airlines and the fatties commute to the airport costing more. Let kill 2 birds with one stone, and if you eat that bird your price for fuel goes down.
Posted by: Ton | Dec 1, 2008 7:14:32 PM
""one person, one fare" guideline that grants an additional seat to the obese and to those with disabilities requiring a personal attendant"
Umm, if someone needs an attendant then that is TWO people. I don't mind giving a free seat to someone who is disabled and needs an attendant but how is that called "one person, one fare"? Just one of the many things that doesn't make sense with this ruling.
Posted by: Mike | Dec 1, 2008 7:21:01 PM
why dont they stay with the cargo? its even more spacious?
Posted by: Dick | Dec 1, 2008 7:32:08 PM
If you are obese because of a REAL medical condition, not "food addiction" or "slow metabolism", then YES, you deserve a free seat to feel more comfortable, so long as us tall folks get an aisle seat or a first class seat every time.
If, however, you are merely FAT because you can't stop yourself from buying that extra Big Mac or two every day, then you deserve to be RIDICULED and pelted with empty food cartons until you wise up and lose the weight.
Obesity is disgusting. I know, I WAS obese. I've lost the weight and now people confuse me for a male model (honestly, it gets annoying after the 800th time). So it is NOT incurable. It just takes the desire to actually NOT BE FAT.
I disagree with this ruling by the Canadian courts, because I feel that obese people are a waste of resources, and space.
Posted by: Tristan | Dec 1, 2008 7:32:28 PM
"Umm, if someone needs an attendant then that is TWO people. "
And what if the attendant is obese?
Posted by: 2 people | Dec 1, 2008 7:37:49 PM
The problem is that some people clump all obese people together - both those with genuine disabilities and those who just don't know anything about nutrition.
And hearing "oh, just exercise and diet" for the thousandth time makes me want to maim those lucky bastards able to run.
Posted by: tz | Dec 1, 2008 7:41:36 PM
Ok, imagine I am genetically predisposed to consume highly addictive substances; should I be treated for that tendency, or instead should society bear the cost of rewarding me for continuing to pursue my extremely unhealthy predilection?
Posted by: PowerAid | Dec 1, 2008 7:45:32 PM
@tz: hearing "oh, just exercise and diet" for the thousandth time makes me want to maim those lucky bastards able to run.
Unless you are a quadriplegic, there are exercise alternatives to running. If you can only walk slowly, regular walks in the countryside can be an incredible way to improve health.
Posted by: NotTZ | Dec 1, 2008 7:48:32 PM
NotTZ: Unfortunately, I can't. Not a quadriplegic - heck, I can even walk short distances - but long walks... no go.
More than 500 meters per day more often than weekly starts hurting really, really badly.
Posted by: tz | Dec 1, 2008 7:52:01 PM
This will open a whole can of worms! Where does it all end? If I feel uncomfortable and at 6'3" I do on most flights, do I now qualify for a free upgrade? Fat chance - pun intended......Here's an example: On my last flight from NY to LA I paid for an exit row aisle seat and when I got there a 300+ pounder was jammed sideways in the window seat and an extremely uncomfortable looking guy stuck in the middle. Before take off he was relieved to be moved ahead one row and the fat guy and I were sharing the three seats - two for him, one for me! Then just a few minutes before take off the flight attendant told the fat guy that since he needed an extender for the seat belt he could not sit in an exit row! He was moved back a few rows and a couple was moved to replace him. End result: He enjoyed his two seats and I was stuck with another guy next to me fighting for the armrest. It seems to pay to fly fat. Maybe for future flights I'll buy oversized clothes, stuff some pillows underneath and get my two seats, at least up in Canada
Posted by: Joe | Dec 1, 2008 7:52:03 PM
Um... this is BS IMHO. There should be a total weight allowed, so obese people would have to take less luggage. I find it utterly ridiculous that me at 190lbs and the guy at 300lbs have the same luggage allowance. So now, not only they can have the same amount of luggage but also more room. Great.
Tall people should get better seats because hey can't get shorter. Fat people should lose weight.
Z
Posted by: Z | Dec 1, 2008 7:53:39 PM
I agree with others - if fat people can get an extra seat for free, tall people should get their own accommodations. I'm not even particularly tall (about 6ft) and coach seats are uncomfortable. I can't imagine what it's like for those who are 6'5, 6'6, or taller. It's probably just as uncomfortable for them to fit in a seat as it is for the most morbidly obese, if not more so, so where are their rights?
Posted by: qwe | Dec 1, 2008 7:57:08 PM
Your physical condition is obviously a manifestation of your self centered attitude.
'I agree with the Canadian move, even if it'd be little help for me - usually I need more leg space and double seats does nothing towards that.
(I need extra leg space yet I'm morbidly obese. This means I have separate conditions, not that I'm somehow storing my fat in my knees.)'
Posted by: guy | Dec 1, 2008 8:08:18 PM
Say someone is just a few pounds below what the Canadian government considers to be obese. Couldn't be seen as encouraging them to put on a few extra pounds before they fly, to get that extra room.
I don't like where this is heading.
Posted by: Simon | Dec 1, 2008 8:12:37 PM
EAT less, MOVE more
Posted by: asdf | Dec 1, 2008 8:13:53 PM
Why is it that people become more and more fat?
Then again, why is it that people become taller and taller? I suspect "lifestyle choices" as well. Shouldn't have eaten *all* your spinach when you were little, so that you would fit better in coach seats (and many car seats, for that matter). And you wouldn't have to whine here that you are oh-so-tall. It's your own damn fault, or that of your parents! Why should society pay for your legroom? Pathetic!
Posted by: ChrisL | Dec 1, 2008 8:21:11 PM
Eating choices do affect one's height, to a degree, but avoiding malnourishment cannot be reasonably equated to stuffing down an entire cake for dessert.
Posted by: qwe | Dec 1, 2008 8:29:59 PM
guy: Agreeing with a political decision that doesn't benefit me is self-centered? Wait, what?
Posted by: tz | Dec 1, 2008 8:30:05 PM
So I go to Wal-Mart the other day, and right next to the wheelchair parking spot is the "expecting mothers" spot. My girlfriend looks at me and says "your kidding right, when I was pregnant I could still walk." to which I replied "yeah, whats next, fat people parking" to which she replied "yeah, at the back of the parking lot". For a second I thought that what we had said could be a little mean, but passed it off as a ridiculous notion. I thank god that the vast majority of wired readers share the same anti-fatbastered mentality as me, but it scares me to death to think that the fat people parking right next to the front door of KFC could be the net step in the glorification of obesity.
Posted by: Curtis | Dec 1, 2008 8:30:49 PM
Obese people need to eat more, as well. Clearly, restaurants will need to give double portions for free.
Hey. Everyone has problems. If yours requres two seats, then pay for them.
Posted by: brian | Dec 1, 2008 9:19:26 PM
@ Curtis
Unfortunately, it's not hard for an obese person to get a handicapped sticker. If they are too fat it can make them bowlegged or lead to other difficulties in walking. About 1/4 of people I see getting into handicapped spaces are just fat.
Posted by: S James | Dec 1, 2008 9:47:19 PM
I'm 6'5" tall and have suffered with airline seating all my working life. I'm not looking for a first class upgrade, just an exit seat.
The only way I can get a comfortable seat is to turn up at the airport 3 hours early and complain bitterly to the poor check-in staff until I get an exit seat. More often than not, I am told there is no way to pre-assign exit seating for safety reasons. Yet, frequent fliers -- invariably under 6' -- always seem to get the exit seats. This, despite the medical evidence that being cooped up in tight spaces is indicated in Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT). So now I ask if the airline are willing to accept the liability of me contracting a DVT from the flight.
Posted by: Paul Adams | Dec 1, 2008 9:55:23 PM
An easy way for the airlines to get around this, and a much fairer system all round, would be if the carriers stopped selling tickets for seats per se, and instead charged for the total weight being carried. This would include the passenger along with all the luggage both cargo and carry-on. It's the weight being carried that burns the fuel right ? More weight being flown equals more fuel being burned equals more cost to the airline. If there was a big price jump on anything over 250lbs that'd discourage the gut buckets as well as those families who bring enough luggage to build a second home.
Posted by: joe_dredd | Dec 1, 2008 10:16:11 PM
I agree with Dredd. Charge by the weight.
Posted by: Alan Finger | Dec 1, 2008 10:59:46 PM
Finally a way for me to get more room on airlines, I just need to gain more weight.
Posted by: brad | Dec 1, 2008 11:16:17 PM
@Tristan
it's not a 'slow metabolism', it's a fast 'pie to mouth action'...
Posted by: queBurro | Dec 2, 2008 12:22:17 AM
Where will this lead? Next thing you know obese people will want to have equal rights to get married like everyone else.
Posted by: bill | Dec 2, 2008 12:54:16 AM
This need not cost the airlines quite so much. People come in all sorts of sizes, for natural reasons and for "lifestyle choice" reasons if you prefer. There are the short, the thin, the fat, and there are children. Men are different from women.
But all airline seats are, by and large, the same. Yes, that's the easy way to do it, but not actually the right way. So there should be a few rows of extra legroom to match the typical number of tall people expected on a flight.
And perhaps in some number of rows there should be a wide seat and a narrow seat, to match the expected numbers of wider and narrower than average people.
Only when the passengers differ far from the average would the wider people need to be accomodated by giving them an empty seat.
Of course, thin people would not like this and would try to get the wider seats. Perhaps the courts would let the airlines price by the inch? Probably not if they want a total regime of non-discrimination. So the main issue would be how to keep the small people -- mostly women and children -- in the narrow seats, so that they are getting the same wiggle room as the average people in average seats and wide people in wide seats are.
But they wouldn't see it that way. For all of flying history, they have gotten a seat with tons of space compared to their body and now they surely feel it is their due.
Of course if not for seat recline you could probably design some sort of movable armrest to allow dynamic seat widths. It might be possible to do dynamic seat widths with seat-backs that are snapped in place just before the flight.
Posted by: Brad | Dec 2, 2008 1:06:53 AM
Whilst I think that in most cases obesity is self inflicted, it's nice to see a government that's not out with the burning torches and pitchforks.
Posted by: Sigh | Dec 2, 2008 1:27:36 AM
... is it me or most of the above comments seem a little bit "odd"??? I wouldn't like to speculate on who is posting what on this article ... perhaps the admins would care to look at the IPs of people posting??? ... just a thought :)
Posted by: JustME | Dec 2, 2008 2:05:25 AM
You're fat, don't sugar coat it you'll just eat that too ~Dr. Phill
Seriously go on all you want about 'disability' vs 'lifestyle' i here the arguments and all i here is excuses, sorry you're too big to get up and jog? how about eating less and lifting a few light weights to get some strength back? there's always something you can do if you have self control and quit making excuses. Buddy of mine lost over 300lbs because he was tired of being fat and went out on his dream of joining the military (strange and suck dream I know but I'm not gunna question it) Quit complaining about how much room you get in your seats and do something to fit in them!
Posted by: Dunen | Dec 2, 2008 3:10:04 AM
I upgraded to an exit row on one of flights so I had extra leg room. I otherwise take an isle seat so I can extend them out.
If there were issues of obese on the bird I am going to be on today (Bombardier) minor problem. It has two rows, two seats wide. Somebody may get bumped. Should be interesting to see how this bird handles compared to the Boeing and McDonald Douglas ones I've frequently been on. The Saab is a headache to ride.
US airlines still have give the disabled problems from damaging their wheelchairs, complaining about the batteries the chairs have, and even complaining about the medically required oxygen not being "airline approved" then charging you for using their tanks.
Posted by: Ed | Dec 2, 2008 3:28:31 AM
Of course, with the gradually increasing seat counts over the years, anyone over 90 pounds or having legs are now catagorized as obese by the airlines
Which probably muddies the issue.
Posted by: Xepol | Dec 2, 2008 3:39:23 AM
>"It's going to make a huge difference..."
HAHA .. It's a pun .. get it ..
Posted by: Felipe Alavarez | Dec 2, 2008 3:57:26 AM
Err, I don't know about any MEDICAL CONDITION that makes you so fat you need to take 2 seats. It's called lifestyle you know? Eat less or exercise! When I see these morbid fat telling "Uhh, there nothing I can do about being overweight" I just want to punch them. What, do you think that people that live in poor countries ever get as fat as you? No, cause 1-They have little to eat. 2-They actually have to move their asses to survive. So no, there is no medical condition that ever gets you so fat as you are! This is a very stupid ruling and I hope that we don't get anything similar in the EU.
Posted by: Bruno | Dec 2, 2008 4:05:06 AM
Canada, this makes me so proud.
Don't forget the other wonderful things you've done for the citizens:
Legalized Gambling, Legalized Prostitution in Windsor (see washingtonpost.com article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302747_pf.html ), Nazi-style anti-smoking campaigns (you can't smoke in bars now), but Ten dollar packs of cigarettes, Forty dollar cases of beer (yes cans are more expensive for some reason), Anti-Street Racing Law (they confiscate your vehicle - even if you aren't racing another vehicle), Steve Harper's pre-election cries of no recession and corporate-puppet-style incessant parroting of Anti-Protectionism at every opportunity. And this is a partial list.
Yes, Canada you make me so proud, this extra seat thing makes up for all of the above, pass the chips so I can ooze over into my deserved space.
Posted by: Bob Loblaw | Dec 2, 2008 4:34:04 AM
So whats next? The personall attendant gets a free bus fair, and train ticket also? The attendant also doesn't have to pay the taxi fair?
This is reduculous.
Posted by: ianmore | Dec 2, 2008 5:00:11 AM
Do people with these diseases get obese even if they eat a vegan diet? Do their metabolism try to turn anything they eat into fat? Maybe I'm being totally ignorant here, but I don't know a disease that can turn a people that lives on lettuce and tofu into a walking whale.
Posted by: Vargas | Dec 2, 2008 5:05:40 AM
Hooray for fat asses!!
Posted by: Cmdr. Mark | Dec 2, 2008 5:41:52 AM
I think air fares should be based completely on total mass, of the person and the luggage. I only weigh about 120 lbs., yet pay the same price as someone who weighs 200-300 lbs., and all their extra luggage. We obviously don't use the same amount of fuel.
Posted by: Josh | Dec 2, 2008 5:43:09 AM
I am intrigued how some people like to say "I hate the american view on beign obese". It seems to me that America has a disproportionate amount of FAT ASSES with "problems", I think what it is, is that we have a big problem with doctors to afraid of being sued to say STOP FUCKING EATING. So instead they (the fat asses) are disgnosed with a disorder
Posted by: Adam | Dec 2, 2008 6:00:44 AM
It was great reading all these comments. Pretty much everyone thinks this is retarded! except for a few retards who are fat or worried they might get fat. Or maybe just dumb.
And seriously? The ATTENDANT? That's even worse than a fat person. That IS a whole entire extra person. I think I can't live if my best friend doesn't come with me on this plane, can I get a prescription for that from a psychiatrist? Probably!
Posted by: Miles | Dec 2, 2008 6:09:49 AM
I guess I could see myself agreeing with people with disabilities needing another seat, however I then wonder what they do now, as I don't think I've ever heard a disabled person having to argue that their attendant needs to occupy the seat next to them.
Most people I know with disabilities just choose not to fly or at least not fly that often. My uncle has bone spurs in his back along with several other medical conditions, but he doesn't think he deserves an extra seat on the plane. Neither does my grandmother, who has to use a cane/walker to get around.
As for the obese, I think that policy needs some work. People who are obese by choice should be offered nothing to make up for their lack of self control, just like the rest of us. As for people who have medical problems that lead to obesity or are genetically predisposed and have a hard time keeping slim, I think it would be ok to offer them a larger seat or whatever the airline has to offer.
However, you have to remember that airplanes are public transportation, not a private jet. Just because you don't fit in the (tiny) seats on the airplane (which most of us don't, large or not), doesn't mean you are entitled to special treatment.
If you have a problem riding elbow-to-elbow with someone else, you should probably consider a different form of transportation.
Posted by: ktc | Dec 2, 2008 6:42:11 AM
Gravity discriminates against obese people. Tell them to sue Newton.
Posted by: Gravey | Dec 2, 2008 6:47:37 AM
i think that ticket price should reflect one's weight.. thats fair right?.. the plane has a payload capacity. the airlines can make more money with more passengers.. its logical that they want to cram em in there.. giving away a seat is very socialist, but making others shoulder the burden of rising fuel costs to make a few fattasses happy is bs..
Posted by: LW | Dec 2, 2008 7:16:30 AM
Planes won't lift off.
Posted by: Land Shark | Dec 2, 2008 7:41:46 AM
The thing about obese people now claiming they are disabled and getting advocacy groups to lobby for them as being disabled is that it DOES affect ACTUAL disabled patients.
This is just a very small and trivial example, but still relevent. My grandmother broke her hip in her later years and as a result always either is in a wheelchair or in a walker. About 10 years ago we brought her to Disney World, and she was always was brought to the front of the line for rides, or given special accomodations. We went again to Disney this year, and those special accomodations were gone, except of course for wheelchair seating areas and ramps. When we asked someone why, we were told that so many obese people now came to Disney on scooters or electric wheelchairs that they could no longer make special accomodations for ANYONE in wheelchairs, it was just not feasable for them to do so.
A better example is that I work in a hospital in the thoracic surgery unit, and it is well known in the medical community how difficult diagnostic testing is for the morbidly obese. Many cannot fit into the scanner machines (CT, MRIs), or if they can, the amount of fat on their bodies makes it simply impossible to see what is wrong with them. Now there is pressure on hospitals to spend millions of dollars investing in machines that can accomodate people over 500+ pounds and to develope imaging technology capable of seeing through a patient's layer of fat. Fat advocates are now demanding that hospitals spend MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars to accomodate the LIFESTYLES of obese Americas, taking that money away from services for actual disabled patients.
Although we have had MANY patients who are overweight due to genuine medical conditions or limitations, I have yet to meet an extremely morbidly obese individual whose condition could be blamed solely on medical reasons. Often what will happen is that someone will have a completely managable medical condition (angina, bad back, etc) and simply use this as an excuse to be lazy. For instance I can think off the top of my head of two women I know (not in a hospital setting), a friend and a cousin of mine. Both have identical back problems that have required multiple surgeries. My friend is now a lawyer who works 50 hours a week, does light exercize (like simply walking) as much as possible, and is on a strict diet. She is only slightly overweight and very active, even if she is unable to perform strenuous activities. My cousin on the other hand, has never had a job, never exercizes or follows a diet, and is obese and receives disability from the government.
If someone has a GENUINE disability that requires an attendant or a wheelchair, or that requires them to have two seats to be more comfortable, I am all for it. But if you are just fat and want the world to accomodate and subsidize your bad behavior, and your only excuse is "oh my bad hip makes it hard to exercize" then you are just a bastard capitalizing on the misfortune of the TRULY disabled.
Posted by: The Black Cat | Dec 2, 2008 8:02:31 AM
To Bob Loblaw:
What's bad in prohibition of smoking in bars? It's OK if someone wants to ruin his/her health (after all, is one's right), but no one has the right to make OTHERS inhale the toxic byproduct of other's vice. Having to breathe other's cigarette's smoke is as if my neighbour in the bar wants to inhale coke and then makes ME inhale a bit. Sorry, pal, I don't want it. Everybody has the right to do whatever with his or her health, UNLESS IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS OTHERS' HEALTH. And that's sensible and plain common sense.
Just my 2 cents (heh).
Posted by: Gabriel | Dec 2, 2008 8:07:35 AM
I hope they're not two aisle seats.
Posted by: Queeg | Dec 2, 2008 8:08:37 AM
Isn't it still the case that airlines regularly overbook flights, on the basis that a small proportion of those with tickets will arrive at the airport too late/not turn up at all? So what if a flight is overbooked in this way, and the first few passengers who arrive are all 'morbidly obese' and each take up a second, free seat, to the extent that a number of passengers who check-in later miss the flight despite being well on time? In this scenario, a group of 'average' passengers are being screwed over by this legislation that panders solely to a small group of whining, cheap fat-asses.
Posted by: Jim McHelm | Dec 2, 2008 8:17:46 AM
I have never visited Canada but if I ever do I'll be sure to ask for a free business- or first-class upgrade. Or at very least an exit row seat.
You see, I'm about 6'4" and I can't comfortably fit in an economy seat.
Some might point out that this is different. It is: I can't control my height.
Posted by: Eric | Dec 2, 2008 8:23:52 AM
All this "Fat people are disgusting! I don't won't them on my plane! Why should we have to fly with them?" stuff really takes me back. I'm from the southern U.S. and I remember when people used to say the same thing about smelly niggers.
Posted by: EricLR | Dec 2, 2008 8:52:58 AM
I am very short (4'11") and this often gives me trouble. In stores, VERY often things are too high on shleves or hangers for me to reach, and I will have to go through the trouble of locating an employee to help me. I live in Boston, and I cannot reach the overhead bars on the subway or bus that are there for you to hold on to if there is standing room only. In theaters without stadium seating, I will have trouble seeing over other people. My feet don't touch the ground in almost any chair, which makes sitting for long periods uncomfortable. I almost ALWAYS have to get my clothes tailored, as adult sizes are too big and children's sizes don't accomodate the hips/breasts of an adult woman.
Life is a little bit more difficult for me in many respects due to the fact that I am not a normal sized person, through no fault of my own. I however, choose to DEAL WITH IT instead of expecting the entire world to revolve around me and my personal convenience.
There is a HUGE difference between being "different" and "disabled." If we rearrange the rules and infrastructure for EVERY person who is simply abnormal, be it in height or weight or whatever, where on earth does it end???
Posted by: The Black Cat | Dec 2, 2008 8:54:23 AM
EricLR,
I agree that there is no need for name calling or that sort of denegration of the obese. Just because I don't think the obese should get special accomodations doesn't mean they should be vilified by society anymore than I think someone who smokes or gambles or indulges in any other kind of vice should be vilified, so long as they don't expect others to pay for their lifestyle choices.
For anyone who just thinks that the (non litigious) obese deserve scorn for their lifestyles, I just wonder how healthy YOU are. I, for one, don't smoke, don't drink, and eat only organic vegetarian foods. But I recognize that that is my CHOICE and those who live less astiduously healthy lives have made THEIR choice, which they are perfectly entitled to. I don't throw food containers and curse every time I see someone eating red meat because I eat healthier. I'm not "better" than anyone, I just made different choices, that's it.
Posted by: The Black Cat | Dec 2, 2008 9:09:58 AM
The Black Cat: Boo, take your reason and tolerance away from this den of 100% American National Capitalist thought.
Here, you won't be accepted unless you're a True American, and follow the True American lifestyle, no matter if it's physically impossible.
Posted by: tz | Dec 2, 2008 9:50:42 AM
The argument about tall people is an excellent one. If obese people get an extra seat based on genetics, tall people should get to sit first class for coach fare. How far can this concept be pushed?
I'm wondering how this is possibly going to be implemented. You have to determine at the time of the ticket purchase how many seats are needed for that person. The only reasonable way for that to be done is for the passenger to actually go to the airport to buy the tickets so that the airline can verify their need. Are they willing to do that?
Anyone ever read Atlas Shrugged? This story sounds familiar.
Posted by: tall man | Dec 2, 2008 9:52:12 AM
I'm a white guy of healthy weight and average proportions. Everything accomodates me!! HOORAY!!!
...sorry to everyone else.
Posted by: Cpt. Napalm | Dec 2, 2008 9:54:59 AM
to Mike:
""one person, one fare" guideline that grants an additional seat to the obese and to those with disabilities requiring a personal attendant"
Umm, if someone needs an attendant then that is TWO people."
I believe when someone or something is indispensable to you, it can be called an "extension" of yourself. For instance service animals by law can go anywhere that their human can because though a separate creature of course, if a person is completely dependant upon that helper animal, that animal then becomes an extention of themselves.
Same with an attendant. Keep in mind attendants are meant for the EXTREMELY disabled; quadrapalegics or the like who are utterly unable to provide basic needs for themselves. Therefor even though an attendant is obviously "another person" they are, from a legal standpoint, considered an extension of the one person (the passenger) because that passenger is utterly reliant on that attendant.
To TZ:
Watch Murderball. I bet any of those guys would love to hear someone say that "not being able to run" is an excuse for being obese and unhealthy. My husband's cousin lost one leg above the knee and one leg below the knee in Iraq, and he works out every day and is probably more fit than I am.
Posted by: Suze | Dec 2, 2008 10:02:04 AM
I think a lot of people are getting caught up in the ruling without considering the true implication of what it will cost the Canadian airlines. They have agreed to comply, but what do they do if they have booked every seat on a plane and everyone shows up with ten of them requiring an extra seat each? Does the airline bump the obese persons, which is discrimination against them for needing another seat? Or do they bump ten non-obese persons, and discriminate against their healthy life style?
This will end up causing more dislike of the obese because they are more than likely going to end up getting 'normal' people bumped off of flights.
Posted by: travisco_nabisco | Dec 2, 2008 10:11:20 AM
Black Cat, thank you for bringing sanity and rationality to this discussion. It's a rare thing on the internet these days.
Posted by: Wedge | Dec 2, 2008 10:20:17 AM
I'm actually surprised that nobody has brought up the method that Southwest has taken to approach this issue. They got a lot of bad press when they decided to enforce their policy of requiring passengers who could not fit comfortably between the lowered armrests to purchase a second fare. What was not highlighted was the fact that if there was even a single unbooked fare on that flight as of takeoff, the secondary fare would be refunded. As a morbidly obese traveler who ALWAYS purchases two seats when traveling (more for the comfort of others than myself), this is a great option. Because I always purchase a second seat, flying on any other airline is a guaranteed double cost, which severely limits my travel options; at least with SW's solution I have the chance of recouping some of that. I'd rather see a more widespread implementation of such a policy amongst other airlines rather than forcing them to "give" me an additional seat for nothing. I accept that the fact that I'm obese imposes certain limitations to my life, and I don't think I deserve any special preferential status because of it, but common sense policies like Southwest's that add to the comfort of ALL passengers while enabling me to save some money and travel a bit more is a win-win situation in my mind.
This topic, however, does serve to highlight just how vicious, demeaning and outright hostile people can be to those who don't fit "the norm". I've been obese since I was a child (long before I had any real concept of how lifestyle choices I made back then would impact the rest of my life) and while I have seen many other forms of prejudice become less socially and publically acceptable (not necessarily less prevalent, just less acceptable in public forums), laughing and sneering at the fatties seems just as acceptable in the purportedly "adult" world as it was in grade school. Consider this scenario the next time you want to heap scorn upon a fat person: what if suddenly those people who have your hair color were suddenly the object of all the bile and vitriol evident in the comments of this post, would you dye your hair (because losing weight is obviously just as easy as that) or would you try to gain a little more acceptance for the person you are, regardless of your hair color?
Posted by: Mark | Dec 2, 2008 10:33:49 AM
Aw, let the fatties have their two seats, their Rascal scooters and their dialing wands. At the end of the day, they still have to live with the fact that they are disgusting to behold and ridiculed by all.
In fact, I say we make them all get on the plane first and mandate that "March of the Elephants" or some other appropriate tune be played over the airport PA system as they waddle down the jetway. That would be awesome, and would more than make up for the fact that they're pouring their supersized behinds into multiple seats. Also, by law all "belt extenders" should be blaze orange and covered with flickering LEDs. Double awesome.
Posted by: ablackstormy | Dec 2, 2008 10:35:22 AM
I recently flew Arizona to New Jersey sharing the three seat with an obese man. I have a disability that renders me extremely sensitive to stimuli such as light, smell, etc. The tall man doesn't know how lucky he was that the obese passenger got moved. I would have gladly shared an armrest if only to avoid the aroma of old food emanating from the gargantuan eater. Like an alcoholic smelling of booze, this man reeked of a sort of salami like smell. It was nauseating. And to top it off, he drank diet coke.
Posted by: Annie | Dec 2, 2008 11:23:00 AM
Fart-sickles 2-for-1
Posted by: AL | Dec 2, 2008 11:31:12 AM
I'm so glad i live in a country like Canada where we truly care about other people. The US mentality is to ridicule and mock - "if you're not one of us.. you're a terrorist" mentality. Thankfully, we have the smarts not to act and behave like our bigger, dumb brother - the US.
Posted by: CANADIAN | Dec 2, 2008 11:39:25 AM
@ablackstormy
hahahahhaaa!!
Posted by: Mike | Dec 2, 2008 11:41:19 AM
Black Cat,
There is a difference between freedom of choice and infringing upon the rights, freedoms, or access to opportunities of others. I would not vilify an individual for their choices, but to form a lobby and insist on special treatment at the expense of, for instance, other airline passengers is unacceptable. Airlines are private companies and should be free to conduct business as they wish. This includes the right to deny service.
Posted by: Joro | Dec 2, 2008 11:42:10 AM
@ Gabriel:
Whats wrong with YOU choosing to NOT go into a bar that permits smoking? Its a privately owned business, not publicly owned, not owned by the government but owned by an individual who chooses to permit smoking. Let the owner decide and if all the bars around him are taking all his business because they are smoke free then HE may change his mind. Don't force him out of business because all his customers stay home because they can't have a smoke with their beer.
When the owner hires new employees all he has to do is tell them that this is a smoking environment and do they still want to work here? They don't have to if they don't want to - just as you don't have to go there if you don't like the smoke.
Now why does a .35¢ pack of leaves & paper (cigarettes) in Canada cost $10.00? The Canadian government says its to cover the health care costs from smoking and YET they are giving morbidly obese people FREE second airline seats!!! How about cutting the tobacco taxes and instituting a FAT-ASS TAX! Talk about rising health care costs!! They are actually encouraging obese people to gain weight!
Talk about government out of control!! How about staying out of every little aspect of our lives - oh wait, its not to "protect us" - its to shake every nickel and dime "from us".
Smoke'em if 'ya got'em.
Posted by: Bob Loblaw | Dec 2, 2008 11:46:38 AM
@Brad
Do you volunteer to work out the complexities involved in your plan?
That would be a nightmare. Airlines as a rule already operate each flight at a loss. The last thing they need is a heinously complex set of rules that would, in the end, only invite shouting matches when a wide seat can't be had by a very fat person because there's none left on a flight... all taken up by just medium-fat people.
This ruling is a pandora's box.
Posted by: instamattic | Dec 2, 2008 11:50:29 AM
This has been pissing me off for years. I'm 6'7" and 300 lbs, so coach legroom is a joke and my shoulders are wider than the seat backs. Don't even get me started about the damn fixed headrests that hit mid-shoulder and cause me to hunch forward until I can recline the seat.
For 14 hour trans-pacific flights, I've gotten to the airport 6 hours before the flight to get the exit row. Talk about a long f'ing day!
I would be willing to pay extra for a bigger seat or the exist row, but not the 4x price that first class is listed for (does anyone actually buy those tickets?). I'm not asking to be given anything, just offered a chance to purchase more space at a reasonable price.
Posted by: JP | Dec 2, 2008 11:53:47 AM
To Suze:
A disabled person + an attendant = 2 people, I don't care how important that attendant is. And by all means give them an extra seat for free. But don't call it "one person, one fare". Should we consider each is only worth half a person, or that the attendant isn't really a person at all? That seems innapropriate and possibly offensive.
Posted by: Mike | Dec 2, 2008 11:55:19 AM
i'm canadian, and i'm all for equal rights/treatment/etc. i believe in universal health care and education. but this is just bullshit. i don't believe the airlines are discriminating against the obese any more than they are discriminating against people who are bringing more luggage. you want more space or cargo? you pay more.
you might as well sue the supermarkets for charging you more money for more food because you eat more. OMG they're discriminating against my right to eat comfortably!
Posted by: willyolio | Dec 2, 2008 11:56:53 AM
wow. just wow.
Posted by: bryan costanich | Dec 2, 2008 12:18:09 PM
fat happens. if you can afford to eat yourself into a second seat on an airplane, you've already paid for it in one way or another.
Posted by: heathrow | Dec 2, 2008 12:27:48 PM
I also see a problem with "morbidly obese" people getting to fly for the price of one seat while others who have similar legitimate space considerations do not.
In particular, what qualifies as "morbidly obese"? Are we going by BMI? Waist-hip ratio? Mobility?
What about others who are fat and have disabilities that are not related to their weight?
While I agree that the process of having to purchase two seats is embarassing, how is it any less embarassing to have to reserve to seats at the same time? Or to have to prove that you have a medical condition (that is greatly looked down upon) that requires you to reserve two seats? I don't think this will help the dignity of those affected.
And why don't people who are taller and/or have broader shoulders get the same consideration?
On the other hand, I'm dismayed by some of the comments here. Look everybody, while some people can lose weight easily, others can't. In general, it seems to be a little easier for men to do so than women (I suspect an evolutionary/genetic advantage), but that doesn't hold true for everyone.
Many, many people lose weight only to put it back on, not because they're eating badly again, but because their bodies are responding to having been on "starvation mode" during the period where they were losing weight. (Incidentally, this is even worse for your health than staying at a constant, high weight, and is a very good reason to avoid crash dieting, or any diet that can't be maintained healthily indefinitely -- unfortunately, the stigma of being fat is great enough that people want to lose weight right away instead of over a process of many years, so they go back to trying "quick" weight loss methods.) Those people are going to go back to a higher weight even on a healthy diet. (This is not to say that there aren't people who finish their diets and then go back to bad eating habits; that happens too.)
There are also some people who have disordered metabolisms (I have a relative with thyroid problems that her doctors are struggling to regulate). Just because someone's overweight, it doesn't mean they eat KFC 8 times a day - there are people who eat normally and exercise and still get fat. Just because someone's thin, it doesn't mean they eat healthily or even that they exercise - there are people who live unhealthy lifestyles and don't get fat. Neither case is particularly common, but it happens.
Don't assume that you know why someone is fat, or what they are or aren't doing about it. Don't assume that all fat people are undisciplined eaters, or that they just somehow haven't gotten the message that it's not okay to be fat. Frankly, it's kind of hard to miss.
Posted by: EJ | Dec 2, 2008 12:52:46 PM
My plan - Insist that I get an extra seat, then let the airline TRY to prove that I am not eligible.
Posted by: regular guy | Dec 2, 2008 12:57:15 PM
Anyone see the Ricky Gervais standup last week? :-)
Loved his joke that luggage weight restrictions aren't exactly fair when a 500lb person is allowed the same as a 200lb person.
The rule should be simple, you pay for weight... whether it's carry on, checked in or fat.
Posted by: Scott | Dec 2, 2008 1:10:11 PM
fuck u fat bitches.
Posted by: pro | Dec 2, 2008 1:15:55 PM
@tz
take your self-righteous fat ass to the fcuking gym..
you can swim right.. or at least float.. go enroll in an aquarobics class... and then.. when you've lost some weight, maybe you'll be able to chase after me on foot.. for 500m... here in the states, when someone has problems walking for more than 500m a day, they go to the gym, or they exercise, they build up the support muscles so they can walk like everyone else.. they don’t wallow, or in your case, just lay there, in self loathing oblivion..
quit being a fcuking reject.. get over yourself, and your fat ass, and lose the weight.. build enough self-esteem to not stuff your face bc you can't do anything about it... quit waiting for a handout you pathetic vampire..
also… there's nothing wrong with America or Americans.. the mentality you display is the same kind that discriminates against foreign nationals... you might as well be the ass wart calling the left cheek the terrorist..
Posted by: lW | Dec 2, 2008 1:19:08 PM
I am a Canadian and I for one am ashamed by our Supreme Court for this. This is one of the stupidest things that I've seen the court pass and there are a lot of ridiculous, apparently "discriminator" things that have been passed. You know what? I am very tall and I think that coach class is discriminatory to my height so I want to be upgraded to first class. Is that going to happen? No. Of course not because it would be ridiculous, right?
Posted by: ES | Dec 2, 2008 1:34:41 PM
People come in all shapes and sizes, and frankly the airline seats barely accomodate the average body comfortably. I'm tall and broad-shouldered, and end up pretzeled very uncomfortably. If the airlines want to avoid two seats for some passengers, then the seats they do have should be designed to scientifically accomodate 95% of people, which they certainly do not currently. The airlines are probably better off giving the occasional second seat than expanding all seats, so they shouldn't complain. Lastly, I don't want to be pressed into fat people so I'd rather they got a second seat rather than me being the second seat.
Posted by: Julian | Dec 2, 2008 3:09:39 PM
this is ridiculous. even if your fat because of genetics you dont Have to be Morbidly Obese. Exercise! Im fat but I know its my fault and Im losing wieght. Maybe if another seat just for your fat cost extra, you might try to lose some wieght.
Disabled is a different story. If you need someone/something to keep you alive to be with you all the time, you Need it, it should be free for medical living purposes. If you need Medics with you you shouldnt have to pay their salary and their bus fair
Posted by: nicole | Dec 2, 2008 4:03:57 PM
lW: Actually, no, I can't swim. And I could easily chase you and probably even outrun you for 500m, the problem manifests with delayed effect meaning that doing that every day of the week (or even every second day) would completely cripple me over time.
God bless the USA and nowhere else!
Posted by: tz | Dec 2, 2008 4:25:45 PM
Hey, this is great. I can drive to Canada, and fly to Bonaire only paying for one seat since my wife is a nurse and takes care of my 'special needs' he he.
Posted by: Dennis | Dec 2, 2008 5:32:55 PM
Hey, this is great. I can drive to Canada, and fly to Bonaire only paying for one seat since my wife is a nurse and takes care of my 'special needs' he he.
Posted by: Dennis | Dec 2, 2008 5:33:47 PM
I'm Tall. I don't ask that I get a first class seat for free. All I ask is that I can get perhaps 30% more space for 30% more money, not 400%
Posted by: Dave Newman | Dec 3, 2008 5:53:10 AM
Wow, the amount of ignorance on here is astounding. How many of you telling people to "just diet and exercise" practice what you preach ? I can guarantee that a good portion of these outspoken clods are the sort that scarf down junk food, sit on their asses all day, and still maintain a slim physique courtesy of their high metabolism. It's amazing that people watching a skinny guy drinking a milkshake will think nothing of it, but if it's a chubby guy doing it, then he's gluttonous. Quit being such narrow-minded hypocrites.
Posted by: Hilary | Dec 3, 2008 8:00:26 AM
Hilary I absolutely agree with your statement!
I am a morbidly obese person myself and while I do not fly, I think that having to pay for two seats is absolutely ridiculous. Now if they were to say charge 25% for extra space I don't see that being as big a problem.
I just cannot believe the ignorance that many posters have. I think many of you should get off your high horse and realize you are not perfect either.
It is no wonder the world is going to hell in a hand basket when you have ignorant people making obscene comments against people because they don't mimic societies "acceptable" appearance.
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Posted by: Seed | Dec 4, 2008 6:19:20 AM
This ruling sets a dangerous precedent. Not only will airlines have the issue of determining what constitutes 'obesity as a disability' versus 'plain obesity', but the argument could be extended to restaurants: one person, one meal, other modes of public transportation, etc. Next you'll see some court rule that will impose accommodation for obese people on rollercoaster rides. No doubt there will be one obese person who is on the border of 'disability'. And then it will end up back in court.
If anything, these people shouldn't get a 'free' seat (when it's not free, the cost of the seat will be imputed on the cost of everyone else's airline ticket), but should pay extra up to the point where the airline isn't losing any money on them--i.e. they should pay 'cost' for that seat. That way, the cost won't be distributed onto everyone else. Obesity is a medical problem that already has a financial impact on government (e.g. healthcare). The cost of someone's obesity shouldn't be placed on a distinct entity, i.e. airlines, who really have no social duty towards obese passengers the way the government does. Last I checked, no airline was a crown corporation.
P.S. what the SCC fails to recognize is that they are lumping extreme obesity as a 'disability' that should be accommodated, just as other disabilties are accommodated, like those who need wheelchair accessibility or who are blind/deaf, etc. but those types of disabilties don't impose extra costs on these airlines whereas obesity does.
Yes, certain other disabilities require another person to physically care for them, and they are entitled to a free seat--which is a cost on the airline. But a different distinction can be made--as others have mentioned, those people don't have control over their disability the way many obese people can. I'm sure many obesely disabled people can't control the fact that they're obese, but they can control the level of their obesity--i.e. bring themselves down to a weight where, even though they are still obese, they are not disabled.
So another issue which may be litigated in court, is the control issue. Why should a private entity be held accountable for someone else's problem that was within their control? Then, do you have to subjectively determine whether or not it was within that particular obese person's control to be 'disabled'? Let's face it--obesity isn't a disability like any other. You aren't born obese, you may be prone to it, but aren't born with it. A 'disabled' obese person can bring down their BMI (or whatever measure is used to determine if they're disabled) to a lower level, but a blind person can't just "increase" their vision by 10% or some other threshold that makes them merely "nearsighted."
Posted by: Canadian law student | Dec 4, 2008 10:53:35 PM
Canadian law student: I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, except I would point out that you're also not born with being hit by a car and becoming paralized and needing an attendant. So I don't think the "born with it" argument would work.
Posted by: Mike | Dec 5, 2008 8:38:52 AM
I will agree with the Canadian law student. But to the Americans that are just calling Canadians stupid lay off. You're not getting anywhere with making that comment. Also if the poll on this site said that 100% of bloggers were against it, thats probably representing the AMERICAN population not Canadian, think about it. We have a different mind set then Americans, pro choice, pro Health care, we are fine with government intervention. While with Americans anything with a dare i say it "socialistic" or "communistic" aspect is ooooh soo bad!
Anyways I think that its not fair for the healthy Canadians (if they're disabled then its different), but the obese ones, its not fair for us. Just because they chose a lifestyle of obesity doesn't mean they should get a free seat.
Posted by: Canadian Student | Dec 5, 2008 5:58:35 PM
Ok, I need a free seat for my child since I can't leave him behind. I should not be charged for him since he's essentially born.
This is ridiculous, the overweight folks are showing their lack of personal responsibility: do you think sitting next to you is fun? do you think I should just suck it up while you spill into my seat that I paid for? If your too big for 1 seat then either loose the weight or pay for the seats you consume.
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Posted by: China Travel | Dec 7, 2008 2:32:07 AM
Help i am 6,6 and over 300lbs can i have a row to myself please.
Posted by: Drako69 | Dec 10, 2008 6:34:34 AM
This is all because Canada Air has such high prices and high number of empty seats, it helps increase their occupancy rate without having to work harder.
Posted by: scarryjerry | Dec 17, 2008 7:27:35 AM
I can not believe all the haters out there. I have been traveling for a while now and let me remind the obese haters out there that the main reason we are in this problem is becuase of the greed of the airlines in general. 20 years ago, the seats were very comfortable and large enough that it did warrant these laws. However, soemone came with the idea that if you make the seats smalled and you shorten the distance between seats, you can cram more people in the plane and make more money. You are complaining about $7M per year additional cost? Don't you realize that this will barely cover 1 month worth of the revenue from the extra seats? In addition, since most of you are not Canadian, you do not know how overpriced Air Canada flights are. Also, do not get me started on the feelings of the obsese. I for one am obese and everytime I fly, it is a burden for me but not becuase of my weight, but because I try to keep everyone's feelings and close my feet together, choose isle seats ahead of time and lean out of the isle to make the person beside me feel comfortable. In additona, becuase I know the space is cramped, I make sure that I do not recline my seat if I see a tall guy behind me. Can you imagine having to do this for a 4 1/2 hour flight? I also do not want to hear about whether it is a self inficted problem vs medical? When you see an obese person sitting beside you, none of you every say "maybe it is a medical probelm". You all say the same thing that is repeated in this Blog "Look at that Fatso and all this blubber. Stop eating Big Mac's etc". Do not even try and say well, it is OK if it was a medical condition becuase you do not care.
Posted by: shafik | Dec 30, 2008 9:12:39 AM




EDITOR: Joe Brown |
Blame Canada! I for one hope that those idiot Canadian legislators who hatched this hair-brained scheme get stuck in the middle seat between two grosly obese people.
Whilst I can understand the policy being applied to disabled people, the vast majority of people are fat by their own lifestyle choices.
If being crushed up against a wall of sweaty fat person blubber wasnt enough, flyers will now have to foot the bill subsidise obese people getting an extra free seat. Why the hell should should travellers be penalised so that fatties can benefit?
What about people with bad backs, do they get upgrades? where does this madness stop. Good one Canada you morons