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Health & Wellness

Only One Candidate Can Achieve Universal Health Coverage

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times. Posted February 7, 2008.


Hillary's plan would insure nearly twice as many people as Obama's.
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The principal policy division between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama involves health care. It's a division that can seem technical and obscure -- and I've read many assertions that only the most wonkish care about the fine print of their proposals.

But as I've tried to explain in previous columns, there really is a big difference between the candidates' approaches. And new research, just released, confirms what I've been saying: the difference between the plans could well be the difference between achieving universal health coverage -- a key progressive goal -- and falling far short.

Specifically, new estimates say that a plan resembling Mrs. Clinton's would cover almost twice as many of those now uninsured as a plan resembling Mr. Obama's -- at only slightly higher cost.

Let's talk about how the plans compare.

Both plans require that private insurers offer policies to everyone, regardless of medical history. Both also allow people to buy into government-offered insurance instead.

And both plans seek to make insurance affordable to lower-income Americans. The Clinton plan is, however, more explicit about affordability, promising to limit insurance costs as a percentage of family income. And it also seems to include more funds for subsidies.

But the big difference is mandates: the Clinton plan requires that everyone have insurance; the Obama plan doesn't.

Mr. Obama claims that people will buy insurance if it becomes affordable. Unfortunately, the evidence says otherwise.

After all, we already have programs that make health insurance free or very cheap to many low-income Americans, without requiring that they sign up. And many of those eligible fail, for whatever reason, to enroll.

An Obama-type plan would also face the problem of healthy people who decide to take their chances or don't sign up until they develop medical problems, thereby raising premiums for everyone else. Mr. Obama, contradicting his earlier assertions that affordability is the only bar to coverage, is now talking about penalizing those who delay signing up -- but it's not clear how this would work.

So the Obama plan would leave more people uninsured than the Clinton plan. How big is the difference?

To answer this question you need to make a detailed analysis of health care decisions. That's what Jonathan Gruber of M.I.T., one of America's leading health care economists, does in a new paper.

Mr. Gruber finds that a plan without mandates, broadly resembling the Obama plan, would cover 23 million of those currently uninsured, at a taxpayer cost of $102 billion per year. An otherwise identical plan with mandates would cover 45 million of the uninsured -- essentially everyone -- at a taxpayer cost of $124 billion. Over all, the Obama-type plan would cost $4,400 per newly insured person, the Clinton-type plan only $2,700.

That doesn't look like a trivial difference to me. One plan achieves more or less universal coverage; the other, although it costs more than 80 percent as much, covers only about half of those currently uninsured.

As with any economic analysis, Mr. Gruber's results are only as good as his model. But they're consistent with the results of other analyses, such as a 2003 study, commissioned by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, that compared health reform plans and found that mandates made a big difference both to success in covering the uninsured and to cost-effectiveness.

And that's why many health care experts like Mr. Gruber strongly support mandates.

Now, some might argue that none of this matters, because the legislation presidents actually manage to get enacted often bears little resemblance to their campaign proposals. And there is, indeed, no guarantee that Mrs. Clinton would, if elected, be able to pass anything like her current health care plan.

But while it's easy to see how the Clinton plan could end up being eviscerated, it's hard to see how the hole in the Obama plan can be repaired. Why? Because Mr. Obama's campaigning on the health care issue has sabotaged his own prospects.

You see, the Obama campaign has demonized the idea of mandates -- most recently in a scare-tactics mailer sent to voters that bears a striking resemblance to the "Harry and Louise" ads run by the insurance lobby in 1993, ads that helped undermine our last chance at getting universal health care.

If Mr. Obama gets to the White House and tries to achieve universal coverage, he'll find that it can't be done without mandates -- but if he tries to institute mandates, the enemies of reform will use his own words against him.

If you combine the economic analysis with these political realities, here's what I think it says: If Mrs. Clinton gets the Democratic nomination, there is some chance -- nobody knows how big -- that we'll get universal health care in the next administration. If Mr. Obama gets the nomination, it just won't happen.

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See more stories tagged with: clinton, obama, health care, barack obama, hillary clinton, health insurance, universal health care

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Experience, especially in this.
Posted by: Billy Blight on Feb 7, 2008 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can't deny that she's had more focus and experience in this than most people, let alone the other contenders.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Truth Hurts?? Posted by: Andie927
» RE: Truth Hurts?? Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Truth Hurts?? Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Edwards plan Best Posted by: Andie927
Change
Posted by: chomsky on Feb 7, 2008 12:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, since when can we trust politicians promises...? It is common knowledge that they would say anything to get elected. So, if you can, judge them by what they did in the past. And Clinton's history is not that great.

Second, even if it was realy gonna happen, it won't balance all the bad things she would do. She represents everything but change. The US will attack Iran, the lobbyists will be still in control of the country/people, no-bid contracts with friends, etc...

Personaly, I am reallly tired of all this... I want change! I want honesty! I want peace! I want real democracy!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Change Posted by: capybara1950
» RE: Change Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Change Posted by: Declan
» RE: Change Posted by: liberalibrarian
No on Clinton
Posted by: g50 on Feb 7, 2008 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't afford healthcare because I don't make enough money to buy it and I don't have an employer plan, and if I was required to buy it I STILL couldn't afford it, and I am not eligible for these alleged benefits. I have looked into my ability to get Medicare. Hillary's plan really pisses me off because I'm punished for my inability to purchase healthcare but apparently its this noble "right" to healthcare in the social democratic tradition. Please. How can you mandate that I do something I can't? And on top of it to say its some kind of noble, human rights kind of thing? Unreal. Real tasteless. So hollow in the Clinton fashion of hollowness.

Oh, plus, Hillary has never produced on this issue. Her whole "I should be associated with universal healthcare in the sense that actual believers in healthcare benefits think of universal healthcare" is a lie.

She failed in 1993, not only crushing reasonable alternatives within the Democratic party when the political momentum was on their side, but she further completely dropped the ball on the media by not actively engaging the media as she crafted the policy. I mean, when you do that, on apparently such a big issue, at a time where you have a Democratic majority in government, how are people supposed to think when you aren't presenting your case to the newspapers, to the magazines, to the radio channels, to the television broadcasts? When you look back on how badly Hillary fouled up healthcare when the New Democrats were still new, you can even get the faint impression she failed intentionally. Of course that level of cynicism may be unreasonable - regardless of motive she failed and it was because she insisted on sticking to needlessly aggressive and hostile tactics.

When you telescope between the smaller details that Hillary claims are the components of her "dedication" to public service, and the larger judgments of character people make about other people, you get the sense that if Hillary who has not been true to her actual enlightened self, that she has settled for half-measures and appearances rather than substance, and that ultimately the Clintons are about the Clintons in the grand tradition of vanity. When you take her phony mandate that forces me to buy something I can't, or her pathetic support for the war when clear-thinking people needed a leader most, when you take her trashing of her opponent which has really been classless coming out of her campaign, I think, what do they care about the public? And that's their main pitch - they fight because they care. But I don't think they do care. They care to fight and be the ones in the ring. Their accomplishments were failures, their achievements have more to do with liking and rooting for them than the substance, and their politics is irritating. They certainly think voters are idiots. Yet their supposedly vaunted intelligence has showed up again and again as a sham, when you consider how much needless trouble they always found in. I don't care for that kind of stupid soap opera discourse.

Yea this is a rant - I just find it mind boggling how Democrats operate. Hillary is a patently awful choice, the Clinton brand has never been favored by a majority of the public in elections, and they've been around for so long without doing much of substance. It's this kind of thinking among Democrats on the front end that always ends up with head scratching when the Republican beats the Democrat in November.

I look over the polls, and I see that the dividing line is about 40. Over 40 breaks for Hillary, under 40 breaks for Obama.

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» RE: No on Clinton Posted by: g50
» "a wisdom in youth"??? Posted by: olderworker
» Same roadblock as in 1993 Posted by: CatDad
» RE: No on Clinton Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: No on Clinton Posted by: jmooney
And one more thing
Posted by: g50 on Feb 7, 2008 1:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Hillary is spending 2,000 per person currently uninsured and Barack is spending 4,200, that amounts to an admission his is a superior insurance. Plus, if he spends 100 billion and she spends 120 billion, that proves the difference between the plans is that those who are allegedly "free riding" or able to afford insurance but who choose not, amount to only 1/6 of the uninsured. That means Obama is right, that the insurance issue is more about that people cannot afford it, rather than choosing not to.

This is a huge philosophic difference, it amounts to Hillary providing a less funded program per person and to punishing those who cannot afford it rather than delivering on actual health insurance.

Hey, PS, the Clintons are the most funded drug company politicians in U$ history.

Sorry, but I can't be on this damned Hillary train.

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» RE: And one more thing Posted by: capybara1950
» RE: And one more thing Posted by: babs
» RE: And one more thing Posted by: Liberty G
» Pooling is protection Posted by: bthespoon
» RE: Pooling is protection Posted by: Xynyx
» I give your commentary a 5 Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Wealth transfer from poor to rich Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: And one more thing Posted by: christopherjee
Samba
Posted by: samba on Feb 7, 2008 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should I be forced to buy health insurance that benefits health care system that kills 100,000 people a year,according to AMA figures?
I don't need or want their services.I'm healthier than most doctors I know.They don't even study nutrition ,except if they specialize.They don't know what health is,they mostly study sickness.They treat the body as a machine to be fixed when it breaks,but don't know how to keep it healthy. There is so much data being generated that it behooves anyone who has to deal with medical professionals to do exhaustive internet research on their own ,because the pros are too busy. Most of the medical profession is chronically sleep deprived. If you're going in for surgery ,you better write in big bold letters on the correct body part,and you better have a sane, alert,intelligent,tough advocate with you to make sure things are done properly,that they actually read your chart etc.
The idea that I should be forced to pay to be put through this dysfunctional system is outrageous. Krugman is way off the mark.When Auto insurance became mandatory the price went way up and the service went way down. Why can't people on the left undersatnd that economic incentives are the best front end approach to getting social responsibility out of profit motivated businesses?

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» I Half Agree Posted by: Liberty G
» RE: I Half Agree Posted by: samba
» I More Than Half Agree Posted by: Liberty G
» One thing you can not say Posted by: bthespoon
» RE: I More Than Half Agree Posted by: Liberty G
» RE: Samba Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Samba Posted by: samba
Take It From Someone IN Healthcare
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 7, 2008 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless and until you get private insurers OUT of healthcare you will NOT be satisfied with the quality of coverage, we will NOT achieve the kind of efficiencies of cost, we will NOT stem the killing off of our rural and safety-net hospitals and we will NOT be getting the kind of healthcare all people deserve. It's really that critical.

Insurance companies and HMOs make money by denying people coverage and challenging every provider decision and claim. It is not in their interest to pay providers in a timely manner or to pay them fairly for the services rendered. Their cat and mouse game on billing and pre-approval adds a huge bureaucracy on providers and insurers that consumes a huge portion of the money spent on healthcare while diagnosing and treating not one person.

This game the insurers play puts a huge burden down to the level of individual providers, taking valuable time away from actually caring for sick and injured people. I spend at least as much time doing this kind of BS paperwork as I do caring for patients, despite computerization and automation. It simply does not have to be this way.

Single payer, universal, not-for-profit, NATIONAL coverage. Not state by state, where each state gives citizens a different standard and quality of care. All for one and one for all...

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capybara
Posted by: capybara1950 on Feb 7, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, I misclicked. I meant to rate your post a 5.
There's plenty of victims around that will testify you can't trust the Clintons as far as you can see them. A shame too because Hillary & Bill are both intelligent and they know a lot of what's wrong in the world. But ambition has changed them so much from their idealistic youth that now they are so busy tricking everyone, that they are ending up tricking themselves. It's a sad waste because they could have been good if they hadn't left integrity behind somewhere. ugh

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Canadians / Americans
Posted by: WimDerNess on Feb 7, 2008 4:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has few to do with this very good article but I'm living in France and I'm still surprised to read a Canadian author not including herself among Americans.

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» RE: Canadians / Americans Posted by: Declan
Clinton wants to fix health care wrong
Posted by: bthespoon on Feb 7, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Universal Care Done WRONG" is unaffordable, unsustainable and immoral...just slightly less immoral but even more unaffordable and unsustainable than what we have now. Mitt, Arnold, Blagoivich, Clinton and Obama only want to prove to the people that universal health care is unaffordable so they and their money piles can keep on keepin' on. Fixing it right would be the opposite: affordable, sustainable and moral. More Americans are coming to realize this than ever. We must find the truth on our own because our leadership refuses to provide it for us. The only problem is we the people can't fix anything without the leadership, and no one left in the running is willing to lead or even point us in the right direction (i.e. uniting Americans into one protective pool instead of leaving us in myriads of aptly-named "risk groups"). Our leaders and media misguide and lie to us. No wonder our people are so misinformed. Our leaders want to help the health insurers keep us divided and conquered in a captive market that is highly ANTI-SOCIAL (because it kills innocent people). Those of us who have done our homework know that Hillary's plan is awful and won't work. But Obama's plan is worse, and the Republicans' even worse. Cut the crap and let's get real...for REAL "change". P.S. The devil in both Clinton's and Obama's details are the loopholes making their "community rating" gutless wonders so health insurers can tilt the playing field in their favor at our expense. We have the people. We have the will. All we lack is the leadership, and they won't even throw us the bones of REAL guaranteed issue with REAL community rating. They're all blowing smoke and mirrors and aparently we as a nation are willingly blinded by them.

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the public good
Posted by: capybara1950 on Feb 7, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have fire stations/fire trucks/firemen we can call that's provided by a single payer, not for profit plan.

We have police we can call that's provided by a single payer, not for profit plan.

Why can't we have clinics/doctors/hospitals that we can call on that are provided by a single payer, not for profit plan.

There are just some services that should be provided for the public, by the public for the public good.

If we take out the insurance companies, we could provide coverage for all and still bring down the yearly cost to each of us that pay for our own individual coverage. Everyone wins. (Well except those working for insurance companies that have to retrain for a new career.)

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» RE: the public good Posted by: Liberty G
» No choice if you're sick Posted by: bthespoon
» The public! good! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: the public good Posted by: babs
» RE: the public good Posted by: Liberty G
» Best way to fix Medicare Posted by: bthespoon
» RE: the public good Posted by: carbon-based
How in the world do you say "Only One Candidate Can Achieve Universal Health Coverage"?
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 7, 2008 5:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And manage to go through the entire article without mentioning the candidate that HAS achieved universal health coverage?

Romney, mormon or not, got it done AS A REPUBLICAN, no less, in Massachusetts.

And you are telling me that only HIllary can do it? It its quite time for you to look past her gender, and at least be honest enough to acknowledge some of the pros of some of the other candidates.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Romney Didn't Do It Posted by: Liberty G
» MIB: Medical Information Bureau Posted by: bthespoon
What I dont see
Posted by: carbon-based on Feb 7, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will admit I am strongly considering Obama on a number of issues. Healthcare is not one of them.

Reason is I believe what the article mentions, what one promises rarely translates into action so it make no dsifference what Hillary or Obama or anyone else offers - it's only talk.

As a small business owner I do not see anyone that will releive the enormous burden healtcare cost brings upon the backbone of America - $12 to $15 thousand a year in premiums for husband and wife in an HMO!!!

And then insurance companies lie to you by listing all these doctors that are in the plan and must take you only to find that those doc's say sorry..no new patients (if you have that insurance).

Who is addressing this issue -no one that I can see.

So while it's fine to design a healthcare system that will encompass everyone ( we already have programs where the uninsured can still get medical attention) what is each candidate offering middle class America re healthcare? - nothing so far!

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» We're just getting started Posted by: bthespoon
» Sorry about the bad link. Posted by: bthespoon
» RE: Sorry about the bad link. Posted by: carbon-based
Universal? Like Romney's plan is "universal"?
Posted by: www.suekatz.com on Feb 7, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Criminalizing people who can't afford healthcare is the Romney way. I live in Massachusetts and the new plan is an absolute nightmare. My own private health insurance (the cheapest kind with no 'extras') went up from about $500 to $600 per month when I turned 60. Romney's plan offers me alternatives - more expensive ones. Those who can't afford coverage are punished, fined, penalized. Excuse me? This isn't "universal healthcare" - this is just forcing people to contribute to the profits of providers.
www.suekatz.com

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Clinton/Obama Healthcare Programs
Posted by: kagu632418 on Feb 7, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Universal to me means "All Inclusive" Which means everyone gets insured ... Plus Hillary contradicts herself by stating that her program promises that everyone gets the same coverage as the Polititians ... Yeah right! Dream on folks ! Just wait what will happen... As far as I am concerned it will be politics as usual - just more of it ... Just remember Pelosi and her speeches - what did we get? Well - fill in the blanks ... Hillary - Obama - Schmama - it does not matter! I feel sad because Edwards called it quits! It never fails in this Country - The one's that would bring on a positive change never make it .. Corruption and corporate greed wins. LOL Look at Obama he states that we need to changed Washington first ... Really! Its a known fact that hets bookoo contributions from Helathcare Lobbyists. I got my wakeup call - hope you get yours

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Forcing property to another person is slavery
Posted by: GPFrank on Feb 7, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanking Paul Krugman for his analysis and facts to think about, but I have a principal (and principle) objection to mandates in the way they have been presented;
Namely to press any individual to turn money or property over to any other private individual is a form of slavery and I believe would be found unconstitutional by any judge who is more than a politician. That has already been my main basis of opposing the so-called reforms of Social Security produced by Wall Streeters. In addition, what about the rights now given to patients to refuse treatment? The medicines I am taking put a drag on me so that I realize
while risking my life to go without them I might yet go out and have some fun close to the end of my years where they are anyhow. The worst risk I realize is something occurring so that I might be helplessly paralyzed . But these are decisions best left up to the individual.

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» bahh--this is nonsense Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: bahh--this is nonsense Posted by: Liberty G
caronome
Posted by: Bayardtom on Feb 7, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why doesn't anybody get it? Unless we have a not for porfit health care plan that covers everybody, there is no equality for our citizens.We are already paying for it so we should have it. We are paying enough for health care for every one of us should be covered.
The state of Massachusetts has a really nasty plan. Yes, why don't we force people to buy health insurance when they can't afford to do that. I'm surprised that Paul Krugman doesn't get this. I have admired his writing for some time so it's really disappointing to read this drivel. Obviously he can afford health insurance. Congratulations!

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 7, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last time Hillary started bitching about health care the GOP took control of both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years.

Representative democracy is obsolete.

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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EXACTLY PAUL KRUGMAN!
Posted by: drricklippin on Feb 7, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... and that is why I have been supporting Hillary for President.

OBAMA IN 2016!

Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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Voters rank healthcare #3 on list of problems.
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 7, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comments on this thread show that healthcare matters. But it is way down the list from the economy and the war. No wonder a problem that has been resolved by all other industrialized nations remains for the US.

It hurts the poor and the sick most. Our economy has always prospered on the suffering of those least able to protect themselves. That is immoral.

And let's not hear any complaints about how Krugman is being "shrill" about Obama. When he analyzes the foolishness of the GOP economic policies, he is held in high regard. So give credit where credit is due.

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Northerner
Posted by: northerner on Feb 7, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't want to point a finger at Alternet readers, but the US has chosen to prioritize a gargantuan military-industrial complex, and let health care be run for profit by ravenous corporations. Both choices, of course, aided by an increasingly corrupt and dysfunctional political system.

So how's that working out for you?

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» Yeah, and... Posted by: sausage
» RE: Northerner Posted by: Knot_Rich
» Our role as protector? Posted by: bthespoon
Universal Health Care of, by, and for Big Pharma:
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 7, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect to get even sicker and more bankrupt. That's what would happen if you were under a nationalized healthcare system controlled by the drug companies and the junk food industry. You know that's how it would be, so how in blazes can you still be for it?

They'll practically be force injecting you with corn syrup, and then prescribing ritalin because you're constantly gyrating on a sugar rush.

Please listen to yesterday's Alex Jones interview of Jennifer Mattox. It starts about 45 minutes in.

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It Does Not Matter
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Feb 7, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether Obama is elected or Clinton is elected will not be the decisive factor in whether we get a good health care plan. Much more important is whether we elect a decisive majority of progressive Democrats and progressive independents to both the house and Senate. In the Senate this means at least 60 progressives. It is not enough to have a majority of Democrats and it is not even enough to have a super-majority of Democrats because conservative Democrats will vote with the Republicans just as they have done in the present Senate.

Republicans can be counted on to vote in lock-step against any health plan because it just does not fit their ideology. Even if it did, they would not want Democrats to get this big a win. For the same reason, it is likely that any Republican President would veto any reasonable health-care plan.

If the there is a progressive majority in the House and a progressive super-majority in the Senate, then the details of any health-care plan will be worked out in these bodies, not in the White House. It is difficult to imagine that either Obama or Clinton would veto an otherwise reasonable health plan on the basis of the details of mandatory enrollment.

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» RE: It Does Not Matter Posted by: sherry
I'm here to help!
Posted by: JohnJlws on Feb 7, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Famous words of the government before they dive deeper into our pockets. Universal healthcare is not the answer to our healthcare crisis: we are. Either "plan" leaves out the key component of personal responsibility (with, of course, the understanding there are genetic influences). Obama comes closer to understanding this reality in his plan than anyone else--he leads on this issue as well.

I don't want government to mandate anything else unless it mandates the food industry to quit pushing garbage; unless it mandates the drug companies to quit pushing garbage; unless it mandates companies pay a living wage so folks can afford healthcare (what if one of the big oil companies actually used some of those amazing profits to pay their receptionist enough so he or she could provide decent healthcare to their family?).

How about this: If you're within your BMI (Body Mass Index) you get a "whatever amount" tax break; if you don't use tobacco products you get a "whatever amount" tax break; if you get a yearly check-up (including any recommended colonoscopy and/or mammogram) you get a "whatever amount tax break; if you do prenatal care you get a "whatever amount" tax break; if you're sexually active you'll have contraceptives and full-spectrum education readily available no questions asked; if you're living in poverty and want to work your way out (well, I don't know how we'll do it, but we'll quit fighting obscene wars against frightful ghosts and give you legitimate assistance to fix this nightmarish obscenity); if you're going into the healthcare or wellness professions and you're carrying a 3.00 or better grade point the U.S. taxpayer will foot the bill to any state run institution of higher learning.

All of the preceding will cost big bucks, but paying for it is simply a matter of priorities. We can do anything we want, but we may have to quit having a war every year. And unlike any of the plans some of the junk in the preceding might actually fix the problem. And Clinton's plan, like GW's prescription drug benefit will be another financial disaster that we'll pay for and pay for and pay for and it simply fails to address the problem. Another great national placebo though.

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» RE: I'm here to help! Posted by: babs
» RE: I'm here to help! Posted by: lenioui
the Obama campaign has demonized the idea of mandates
Posted by: sausage on Feb 7, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barack Obama sees that mandated ownership of private health insurance is a poison pill. Congressional Republican will never go for it nor will millions of pinheaded, Randite-libertarian Americans.

And I think Hillary Clinton knows this also. So if and when any bill promoting the Clinton health care agenda is presented in the US House or Senate, Republicans will use every trick in their book to defeat it. And it will go down in flames, as did Clinton's earlier foray into "universal" health care 15 years ago. Then a presumtive President Clinton will bluster about reactionary Republicans thwarting her efforts, then in short order drop the subject and move on. We shall be left to muddle on as before.

Obama's plan may not be as good as Clinton's but it is more politically palatable for Bluedogs and Republicans alike.

The reality is that only Dennis Kucinich's plan will achieve nationally affordable "universal" health care.
"Mainstream" writers like Ph. D. economist and columnist for the New York Times Paul Krugman now agree with those doctors and Dennis that "covering everyone under Medicare would actually be significantly cheaper than our current system." They all recognize that we already spend enough to provide national health care to all but lack the political courage to make the tough decisions that doctors, nurses and medical professionals must run our health care system, - not "for profit" insurance companies who make money by denying health care.
Kucinich.us

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Let me get this straight
Posted by: EncinoM on Feb 7, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Person X with no insurance, is living pay check to pay check (that is not just the poor but the middle class). He is earning enough no to qualify for much if any breaks. Under Obama's plan he has a tough choice, he has access and has a choice afar can he afford it. Under the Billary plan there is no choice an additional tax is coming out of his pay whether or not he can afford it.

Additionally, If I was an employer, why would I even consider health care insurance for my employees, because under the Billary plan, I do not need to gor through the head act of paper work, but have the government take it out of the empoyees wages.

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» RE: Let me get this straight Posted by: Minneapple
» RE: Let me get this straight Posted by: EncinoM
Madate isnot the way
Posted by: dylansstp on Feb 7, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Romney passed mandated healthcare for everyone in Massachusetts. Poor who chose extra food over their health care got fined for not paying into the system. The same thing would happen here, just on a larger scale. Obama and Clintons plan are both based on the same Yale professors study. You will get the same subsidies under Obama and pay roughly the same for Healthcare under Obama as you would Clinton. The only difference is one you would have to buy into and the other you would not.

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It ain't going to be Hillary
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 7, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's only one way to get ALL american's
the healthcare they need and deserve because of this government's short sighted environmental policies and that's to make Healthcare for ALL americans an Executive Order and move it into the Always Funded section of the Federal budget. The same needs to be done with Social Security. Hillary literally has'nt got the balls to do it,forget Obama,he's just as big of a sell-out and the only republican that might is Ron Paul.
No the only person that has the will,determination,and the guts to make the Congress work for the Peopleis.....ME
But then again is america really ready for a President that really gives a damn about ALL the People,The Environment, Education and Healthcare and is willing to order the the things we need done,done. Until we get over our obsession with corprate asskissers and thinking the rich are the coolest people on the planet,we'll never get anything done that's not geared for that small but insanely powerful niche group. But if you really want something done;
DRAFT JEFFREY7 for Prez '08
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7

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