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June 11, 2008 6:49 AM PDT

Grammy winning record producer says CD quality isn't good enough

Posted by Steve Guttenberg
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Producer T Bone Burnett talked passionately about sound quality, or lack thereof on a radio program, Soundcheck, from WNYC on Monday. Burnett produced Robert Plant and Allison Krauss' awesome Raising Sand CD; the O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack; as well as records by Bob Dylan, Los Lobos, Elvis Costello, and Counting Crows.

Turns out Burnett's no fan of CDs or downloads, stating that CD's inadequate sampling rate loses too much of the sound he heard while making and mixing records. He put it this way, "We've been fighting digital sound since it came out twenty years ago...music's gotten to a place that's harder to listen to."

Wow, the guy sounds like an audiophile to me, and he goes on about the degradation of sound from what he heard in the studio, "It's stepped down from tape to digital to compressed digital, so people are now listening to a Xerox of a Polaroid of a photograph of a painting." Tell it brother, but it's interesting Burnett never brought up vinyl or analog, though he did mention that it's only in the last few years that digital's gotten really good. I agree.

Digital losses have all taken their toll on the way people relate to music, so it's mostly background to other activities instead of the primary focus. Digitized sound is diluted to the point is ceases to connect with people on a visceral level. It's just there, a ghostly shadow of its original intent.

To fix the problem Burnett wants his future projects, like the new John Mellencamp album he produced that's due in July, to come out on DVD-Audio, with a bevy of formats including 24 bit/96 kHz WAV files, uncompressed 16bit/44.1kHz files, AAC, and MP3, so you can pick the level of fidelity that works for you. Burnett claims you'll finally get to hear the music as he intended when he made the record in the first place. "It's all part of what makes music feel good."

You can listen to the complete T-Bone Burnett interview here.

Steve Guttenberg is a frequent contributor to magazines and Web sites including Home Entertainment, Playback, and Ultimate AV. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network, and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 33 comments
by James7777777 June 11, 2008 7:29 AM PDT
Sounds like a good idea to me. Online music sales are at such a low quality it's ridiculous. They even pale to a standard cd. Of course when the most popular mp3 player sports ridiculously bad headphones and can't properly support higher quality headphones people won't hear the difference.
Reply to this comment
by sandor_f June 11, 2008 7:39 AM PDT
Why not have high-fidelity digital downloads like NIN? Why bother to put them on a disk? I can play 24 bit/96 kHz WAV files in iTunes with no problem, and even convert them to 24 bit/96 kHz ALAC files to losslessly compress without a problem.

"Digital" is just the transport module, and it is excellent, fast, and lower overhead. Just give us the quality we want.
Reply to this comment
by jscott418 June 11, 2008 7:39 AM PDT
Not only has the digital media been less then faithfully reproducing audio. But has anybody felt like me that the hardware has been less then high quality and more about features.
Especially in ear phones and headphones. Some on borderline high fidelity. Even home audio has taken a back seat to more media features and inputs. I will have to say though that I have heard a lot of crap coming from some recording studio's too. Some say they are being forced to keep modulation constant and prevent the low modulations. Loudness sells I guess.
Unfortunately digital was supposed to be better, but mostly it has been used to easily tweak the audio to take up less space on the media its on.
Reply to this comment
by dascha1 June 11, 2008 7:42 AM PDT
What is the current human evolved frequency range now-a-days and will that need to be updated.
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by MaLvaDo39 June 11, 2008 7:50 AM PDT
Just get the record labels to allow higher quality downloads like these in AAC.

Problem is the greedy industry is still trying to make money off of those old shiny, plastic CDs.
Reply to this comment
by davidwb June 11, 2008 8:08 AM PDT
I consider myself an audiophile and I have to admit that I'm glad to see vinyl making a comeback but....only a small portion of my listening time is under audiophile conditions. In my car, at the office, and while I'm outside working in the yard and/or exercising I'm listening to music in conditions where a low quality MP3 sounds just fine.

So in the last year I've found myself in something of a quandary. If I buy vinyl I get great quality when listening to my home stereo but I'm not really physically set up to rip vinyl not to mention that the software for doing so is less convenient and less sophisticated that its CD counterpart. So at the moment I find myself asking, "Will I listen to this album more at home or elsewhere?" In other words, it sure would be nice if the labels provided the means for vinyl buyers to get easy access to the digital format too without having to pay full price for another "license to listen to the music" which I've already paid for.
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by karmsediner June 11, 2008 8:35 AM PDT
davidwb, that is a no brainer. Buy the vinyl. Most albums come with a coupon/card which provides you with a digital download of the album. For those that don't you can easily find a copy of the album via torrent or P2P. It's not stealing if you own a physical copy of the album, right?
by cyberjam June 11, 2008 8:36 AM PDT
Steve, sorry the Dancing with the Stars thing ended prematurely for you. Everything in this country is watered down from music to autos to architecture. I will say, however, while riding on the plane looking at my iPod and thinking how did they get all that music in this tiny little thing? and no moving parts. If you want to hear real music play the guitar. If you want to travel and enjoy your music at the same time get an iPod and deal with the sonic short comings or buy your own plane and rent a live band to play your favorite tunes. All in all I think progress has been made and I'm sure that some high end audio company like Krell or will smell the coffee and come out with a $5000 digital music device that will be amazing. The only drawback will be that you have to where a car battery around your neck to power it.
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by hermantf June 11, 2008 8:37 AM PDT
I disagree. All things being equal (speakers, amplifier, cables, room, etc,), the difference in sound between a CD and an mp3 compressed at 128 kbps - 44.100 khz, is almost non existent. I've done A-B tests in a recording studio and everyone there, the sound engineer, the producer, the arranger, and myself agree on this.

There is a slight difference between the final analog master and the mp3. But nothing to really complain about, given the connivence of mp3's.

I come from a time of LP's and cassettes. Now that's a difference to complain about. Pops. Clicks. Hiss. Dolby. Uuuggg! I don't even want to remember those days! According to some of the posts here, some of you even miss those days! Now that's just plain silly.

Unless you're an extreme audiophile, and I mean extreme, and you have a sound system and listening room that has the best of the best (I'm talking hundreds of thousands invested in equipment and room design), don't worry about this issue. Enjoy the times everyone! Mp3's or AAC or whatever, are an awesome way to enjoy music!
Reply to this comment
by cyberjam June 11, 2008 8:52 AM PDT
here, here, hermantf
by UITD June 11, 2008 9:04 AM PDT
"I've done A-B tests in a recording studio and everyone there, the sound engineer, the producer, the arranger, and myself agree on this."

Doesnt mean you're all correct. It only means you agree on the same thing. But, that 'thing' is still a sampled down garbage reproduction some times over.

Regarding the pops, clicks, hiss...... THOSE were the days. These days is garbage content and garbage quality. Guess its tough to distinguish garbage when its wrapped in garbage anyway.
by James7777777 June 11, 2008 8:51 AM PDT
I call foul, a 128 kbps mp3 does NOT sound as good as CD. Perhaps when listening to some songs it blends, but listen to something acoustic and tell you you can't hear the differences.

cyberjam: You don't need to carry a car battery around your neck to get better sound, you just need to buy something better than an iPod. I know you won't bee cool anymore and it won't feel all sexy in your hand, but it will sound much better. Look into archos or cowon.
Reply to this comment
by UITD June 11, 2008 9:00 AM PDT
No crap. CD sound quality has always been, at best, nominal. And dont even get me started on downloads... HAHAHA - quality? No such thing. These stinky little MP3 players cant even reproduce the garbage that is downloaded correctly. If one thing remains the same, the music industry is only concerned with itself and fattening up their wallets. I cant say I blame them, thats their business: music. And if there is a market of fools who will actually spend their hard earned money on that garbage product, then so be it.
Reply to this comment
by jfrockon June 11, 2008 9:02 AM PDT
I do think high end audio is a beautiful thing, but there is so much crap being recorded these days thank God we can't hear the full fidelity of it. It boils down to great musicians and songs, if its recorded nicely thats a bonus. Yes MP3s are low quality, thats their nature. But crap songs with crap players recorded in the best studios using the best gear and engineers and producers are still just highly polished and gold plated turds.
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by jfrockon June 11, 2008 9:03 AM PDT
I do think high end audio is a beautiful thing, but there is so much crap being recorded these days thank God we can't hear the full fidelity of it. It boils down to great musicians and songs, if its recorded nicely thats a bonus. Yes MP3s are low quality, thats their nature. But crap songs with crap players recorded in the best studios using the best gear and engineers and producers are still just highly polished and gold plated turds.
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by jfrockon June 11, 2008 9:08 AM PDT
Sorry about the re-post
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by AppleRocks1963 June 11, 2008 9:11 AM PDT
99.99 percent of people don't care or are not able to hear the difference.
Reply to this comment
by kai6novice June 11, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
I am total agree. People no long demand high quality music. Or they don't even appreciate high quality music. This is the result of "So What.." effect. I personally think this is a bad road we're getting ourselves into. Same thing happen in the software world, where the quality of software is getting worse everyday. Would people use a calculator if the calculator fail to give you the correct answer of 1+1 in 0.01%? Someone would say, that's "Good Enough!"
by hermantf June 11, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
Absolutely right!
by johnsin June 11, 2008 9:28 AM PDT
In 2001, when I use to work for BMG Entertainment. and DVD audio was just coming out we were pushing to do multi-format DVD-Audios.. the only problem was. the player set you back 15k. How much are they going for now. I mean.. the sound quality is really good and I wish they would abandon CDs all together.
Reply to this comment
by punterjoe June 11, 2008 9:52 AM PDT
What's the point of releasing on a format that's been abandoned by the industry? Have you shopped for a DVD-A or SACD player recently?
You're looking for Kobe beef in a mcwhopper world :(
btw - I'm not disagreeing with any point you make, just expressing my growing feeling of futility.
Reply to this comment
by cyberjam June 11, 2008 9:57 AM PDT
James7 and UITD, think your still missing my point. Was the mp3 ever intended to replace $20,000 of audio equipment? I'll answer for you...NO. I can hear the difference b/n my $3500 system (not giving the product names cause you'll might trash those too and I'm just too attached to them) and sexy my iPod but when your at 35,000 ft. does it really matter . Repeat after me "digital is our friend" Hello, I'm a mac and I'm a PC PCPCPCPCPCPCPC. Control-Alt-Delete.
Reply to this comment
by alegr June 11, 2008 10:53 AM PDT
If you're so fond of LP, I suggest you just digitize it to 24 bit 96 kHz, and listen to those files. You won't hear any difference. Hell, you're not likely to hear any difference even if you digitize your favorite LP to standard CD sample rate and 16 bits. Other than LP getting worse and worse with each playback, and CD keeping unchanged.
Reply to this comment
by hermantf June 11, 2008 4:15 PM PDT
Exactly!
by zgreenwell June 11, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
DVD-Audio and SACD are both dead. Of course, eventually peeople are going to want more and maybe then they could revive ONE (!!!AND ONLY ONE!!!) of those two formats.
Reply to this comment
by adlieb June 11, 2008 2:38 PM PDT
Why go to a DVD-Audio format? Hello, we have something new called lossless Master Audio. It's available in this nice new format called Blu-Ray, and its backwards compatible with an SACD formatted player, or for that matter, any CD player, with the 2.0 channel LPCM recording. Trondheimsolistene, an orchestra from Norway released "Divertimenti," the first Blu-Ray Audio cut which includes "2.0 LPCM, 5.1 LPCM, 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio, 5.1 Dolby True HD, and 5.1 Dolby Digital at 48KHz." Now if CD doesn't have the sampling rate you're looking for, there's truly an "audiophile" grade technology out there.

Check out the Blu-Ray release here.
http://www.switched.com/2008/05/30/first-blu-ray-record-released/
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About The Audiophiliac

Ex movie theater projectionist Steve Guttenberg has more or less successfully hitched his future to home theater, but he still pines for the clickity-clack of 35 MM projectors and all the stale popcorn he could eat. Between projectionist gigs he worked as a high-end audio salesman for sixteen years, and produced records for an audiophile label. Oh, and one more thing, nothing annoys Steve more than being confused with the other Steve Guttenberg, the washed-up Police Academy actor. The wordsmith Guttenberg is a frequent contributor to a number of magazines and websites including Home Entertainment, Playback, and Ultimate AV. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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